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Do we? Fresh water isn't unlimited - in fact much farming today is done unsustainably by pumping ground water faster than it can be replenished. Desalination

Do we? Fresh water isn't unlimited - in fact much farming today is done unsustainably by pumping ground water faster than it can be replenished. Desalination plants are expensive and not necessarily viable. Oil is obviously limited, and while there are energy alternatives it's not quite that simple. Not to mention the abundant use of petroleum in every day items we take for granted such as plastic. Sure, we can imagine a world without oil, but right now that world does not exist. Land is limited. Minerals are limited. Medicine can be limited (I'm fairly certainly whoever develops a vaccine will find it used nationally much more densely than internationally until it is ubiquitous).

arcticbull 6y ago
> Fresh water isn't unlimited... Yep, but we have more than enough for the time being. > ... in fact much farming today is done unsustainably by pumping ground water faster than it can be replenished. Yes, however a lot of that is done to produce products that are unnecessary (a single almond requires 1.1 gallons of water to produce), a political exercise (40% of all US corn is grown for Ethanol, which produces more carbon emissions than it saves), or otherwise in support of our largesse (49% of all US corn is grown for animal feed). > Oil is obviously limited, and while there are energy alternatives it's not quite that simple. Not to mention the abundant use of petroleum in every day items we take for granted such as plastic. Sure, we can imagine a world without oil, but right now that world does not exist. Substantially less oil would be consumed for power, making it available for plastics, etc, if we actually invested in nuclear, wind and solar. The amount consumed for the manufacture of plastics is pretty limited and plant-based alternatives are coming to the fore. > Land is limited. Minerals are limited. The density of the US is 94 people per square mile, with more than enough minerals to go around. There's effectively no limit to how far up you can build in a metropolis if the city council chooses to permit it (see: San Francisco vs. Miami, Houston). > Medicine can be limited (I'm fairly certainly whoever develops a vaccine will find it used nationally much more densely than internationally until it is ubiquitous). Medicine is always going to be limited, the question is how we choose to ration it -- based on luck (aka free market capitalism, to whomever can afford it) or based on need (via socialized scheme). > Food... Consider that America wastes 40% of all the food it produces -- 80 billion pounds of food per year -- enough to feed the entire rest of the planet. [1] There is enough to go around, we just choose not to let it. [1] https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > with more than enough minerals to go around I think we actually agree on most things except for this. China is hoarding rare Earth minerals, mostly the kind you need to develop batteries to transition away from our dependency on oil. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2019/07/10/china-has-a-powerful-trade-weapon-rare-earths-used-in-green-energy-products/#808b2034e4c1 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2019/07/10/china... So no, we absolutely do not have enough minerals to go around, at least if you want to transition to alternative energy resources.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Rare earth minerals aren't exactly what you think. They're pretty evenly distributed across the entire earth's crust. The amount in China is equal to the amount in the Brazil and Russia combined. There's a lot in Australia, the US, Greenland and a whole ton in Vietnam [1]. Yes, China produces a lot right now, and yes they're considering it a strategic issue, but it's not because China is the only place that has it -- far from -- many countries have similar quantities. China only has 1/3 of the world's known rare earth supply. The name is misleading, because they're anything but rare. The reason China produces so much is because they're willing to pay the environmental cost of extracting them, nothing more. There's plenty of those to go around, too. [1] https://geology.com/articles/rare-earth-elements/ https://geology.com/articles/rare-earth-elements/
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      Sure, but you're implying China sources most of its minerals locally, when in fact they do most of their mining in Africa. So they are hoarding a larger than proportional amount of rare minerals in order to benefit themselves. > The reason China produces so much is because they're willing to pay the environmental cost of extracting them, nothing more. They're offloading it onto Africa, so they aren't really paying it themselves.
      - chrischen 6y ago
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arcticbull 6y ago

> Fresh water isn't unlimited... Yep, but we have more than enough for the time being. > ... in fact much farming today is done unsustainably by pumping ground water faster than it can be replenished. Yes, however a lot of that is done to produce products that are unnecessary (a single almond requires 1.1 gallons of water to produce), a political exercise (40% of all US corn is grown for Ethanol, which produces more carbon emissions than it saves), or otherwise in support of our largesse (49% of all US corn is grown for animal feed). > Oil is obviously limited, and while there are energy alternatives it's not quite that simple. Not to mention the abundant use of petroleum in every day items we take for granted such as plastic. Sure, we can imagine a world without oil, but right now that world does not exist. Substantially less oil would be consumed for power, making it available for plastics, etc, if we actually invested in nuclear, wind and solar. The amount consumed for the manufacture of plastics is pretty limited and plant-based alternatives are coming to the fore. > Land is limited. Minerals are limited. The density of the US is 94 people per square mile, with more than enough minerals to go around. There's effectively no limit to how far up you can build in a metropolis if the city council chooses to permit it (see: San Francisco vs. Miami, Houston). > Medicine can be limited (I'm fairly certainly whoever develops a vaccine will find it used nationally much more densely than internationally until it is ubiquitous). Medicine is always going to be limited, the question is how we choose to ration it -- based on luck (aka free market capitalism, to whomever can afford it) or based on need (via socialized scheme). > Food... Consider that America wastes 40% of all the food it produces -- 80 billion pounds of food per year -- enough to feed the entire rest of the planet. [1] There is enough to go around, we just choose not to let it. [1] https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/

Judgmentality 6y ago
> with more than enough minerals to go around I think we actually agree on most things except for this. China is hoarding rare Earth minerals, mostly the kind you need to develop batteries to transition away from our dependency on oil. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2019/07/10/china-has-a-powerful-trade-weapon-rare-earths-used-in-green-energy-products/#808b2034e4c1 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2019/07/10/china... So no, we absolutely do not have enough minerals to go around, at least if you want to transition to alternative energy resources.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Rare earth minerals aren't exactly what you think. They're pretty evenly distributed across the entire earth's crust. The amount in China is equal to the amount in the Brazil and Russia combined. There's a lot in Australia, the US, Greenland and a whole ton in Vietnam [1]. Yes, China produces a lot right now, and yes they're considering it a strategic issue, but it's not because China is the only place that has it -- far from -- many countries have similar quantities. China only has 1/3 of the world's known rare earth supply. The name is misleading, because they're anything but rare. The reason China produces so much is because they're willing to pay the environmental cost of extracting them, nothing more. There's plenty of those to go around, too. [1] https://geology.com/articles/rare-earth-elements/ https://geology.com/articles/rare-earth-elements/
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    Sure, but you're implying China sources most of its minerals locally, when in fact they do most of their mining in Africa. So they are hoarding a larger than proportional amount of rare minerals in order to benefit themselves. > The reason China produces so much is because they're willing to pay the environmental cost of extracting them, nothing more. They're offloading it onto Africa, so they aren't really paying it themselves.
    - chrischen 6y ago

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