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There are many species that don’t care about consent. The ones that do have consent tend to spend a lot of energy growing plumage and doing elaborate dances to

by parsimo2010 6y ago

There are many species that don’t care about consent. The ones that do have consent tend to spend a lot of energy growing plumage and doing elaborate dances to woo the females. It shouldn’t be that hard to understand that some species evolution would land on rape as a way to save the time and energy spent during courtship. Just because humans shun rape it doesn’t mean it can’t work for other species, moral issues aside.

adamsea 6y ago
The very concept of consent or rape (as moral and ethical concepts - which is why the article uses the word “coerce” instead of “rape”, I bet) are difficult to apply to nonhuman species because they’re not human. [EDIT: interestingly I think this all boils down to considering if dolphins have ethics or “dolphin rights” within their own societies. A violation of a right is logically impossible if the very concept of, or indeed, the right itself, does not exist.] I think it would be really interesting to talk about animal ethics and with very smart mammals like dolphins moral imperatives like consent might be appropriate in some way but I just don’t know. But it’s inaccurate, imho, to talk about rape as a reproductive strategy for animals if we are using that word in the way we use it when we are talking about ourselves (humans). Again not to say the concept is irrelevant to animal life but I think we do both ourselves and animals a disservice if we aren’t careful. If you are speaking with some knowledge of animal ethics but didn’t share it my apologies :)
- CMCDragonkai 6y ago
  Your comment seems to imply that there's something fundamentally different from humans and other animals.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    Good point. I don't know, I'd like to learn more! I mean we aren't that different from other animals, especially our fellow mammals. And we're all part of nature and life. And it definitely seems like many animals have varying degrees of what we call consciousness or intelligence (octopus!). At the same time there is an obvious difference, though perhaps one of degree and not of kind. The sophistication of our language, social structures, capacity for abstract thought, and toolmaking abilities. Stuff like that.

adamsea 6y ago

The very concept of consent or rape (as moral and ethical concepts - which is why the article uses the word “coerce” instead of “rape”, I bet) are difficult to apply to nonhuman species because they’re not human. [EDIT: interestingly I think this all boils down to considering if dolphins have ethics or “dolphin rights” within their own societies. A violation of a right is logically impossible if the very concept of, or indeed, the right itself, does not exist.] I think it would be really interesting to talk about animal ethics and with very smart mammals like dolphins moral imperatives like consent might be appropriate in some way but I just don’t know. But it’s inaccurate, imho, to talk about rape as a reproductive strategy for animals if we are using that word in the way we use it when we are talking about ourselves (humans). Again not to say the concept is irrelevant to animal life but I think we do both ourselves and animals a disservice if we aren’t careful. If you are speaking with some knowledge of animal ethics but didn’t share it my apologies :)

CMCDragonkai 6y ago
Your comment seems to imply that there's something fundamentally different from humans and other animals.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Good point. I don't know, I'd like to learn more! I mean we aren't that different from other animals, especially our fellow mammals. And we're all part of nature and life. And it definitely seems like many animals have varying degrees of what we call consciousness or intelligence (octopus!). At the same time there is an obvious difference, though perhaps one of degree and not of kind. The sophistication of our language, social structures, capacity for abstract thought, and toolmaking abilities. Stuff like that.