4 ms·
Is it though? Renewables that are popular now, like solar and wind, are weather dependent, which means the grid needs to handle variable input, which it's not
by kayaeb 6y ago
Is it though?
Renewables that are popular now, like solar and wind, are weather dependent, which means the grid needs to handle variable input, which it's not designed to do and would need major fixing. Also means you need to store the energy for when it's not abundant, Germany does this by pumping water into mountain lakes to produce hydro on demand, but they've run out of lakes, so you need batteries. Batteries of a grid-size magnitude need carbon-expensive materials and have their own plethora of problems.
These two problems are only feasibly conquerable in a reasonable timescale by a few countries, for others they are prohibitively expensive, far beyond the small subsidies proposed in things like the Paris Accord. Now, sure, USA, Europe could implement these, but it's not going to fix the problem if Asia, Africa don't, and additionally it's going to add significant economic and geopolitical pressure between these nation-blocs, those who are hamstringing themselves and those who aren't.
Hydro has serious geopolitical issues as fresh water supplies grow more tactically necessary, consider Egypt / Ethiopia right now with the Nile, or China's tibetan plateau snow-seed cannons to capture water before it reaches India.
Tidal has extremely short lifespans, any moving system in salt water is difficult to keep going for more than a few years.
Geothermal is good, but also one of the most expensive and a bit of a "slow burner," not going to be powering anything serious with that without sinking billions into the plant.
The only real solution I see is nuclear, but that's a naughty word for some reason.
- fsloth 6y agoAs near future sci-fi options go from 100ft up I don't see anything too problematic with hydrogen economy. Except for transport infrastructure. Or, we remain with carbon based fuels, except they are synthesized from atmospheric carbon in regions with plenty of solar energy. These approaches surely have challenges, but I would like to know what are the biggest ones?
- Zigurd 6y agoAmmonia is more practical than hydrogen. Just not as sexy. Should be rebranded as the "hydrogen-nitrogen economy."
- petre 6y agoAmmonia has issues like being toxic and higlhy volatile. I think DME has some potential as an alternative fuel because it can be produced through CO2-to-DME hydrogenation or by using syngas/manure and burned in cleaner diesels (no particulate emissions).
- kvetching 6y agoRenewables are crony capitalism. Without consistent government subsidies, incentives, grants, etc...they are not profitable.
- amiga_500 6y agoFossil fues are subsidized because the users don't pay the true cost.
- VyperCard 6y agoYeah they are also directly subsidized.
- dragonwriter 6y agoNo, renewables are public goods as they have positive net externalities, that is, a substantial share of the benefits of their use accrues to people outside the transaction. Well, relative to fossil fuels, at least; it's more accurate to say that fossil fuels are public harms with a substantial net negative externality. Government action in the form of subsidizing the former and/or taxing the latter is necessary to internalize the externalities so that the relative net cost (benefit) is born by (accrues to) the participants in the transaction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax
- dragonwriter 6y ago> Renewables that are popular now, like solar and wind, are weather dependent, which means the grid needs to handle variable input, which it's not designed to do and would need major fixing. Non-renewable plants have variable output even if it is not dependent on weather, and the grid in fact deals with variations in total and per-plant inputs whether or not solar or wind is attached. If there are problems with that, the need to address them is independent of the use of solar and wind.
- kayaeb 6y agoNot on the scale of "we need to move the bulk of the energy from Texas to New York for 3 hours, then when the sun sets shift state-level power supply routing from the cornbelt to cover the drop." Handling a plant going offline is totally different from the logistics of shuttling variable regions of production across the entire country.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> Not on the scale of "we need to move the bulk of the energy from Texas to New York for 3 hours, then when the sun sets shift state-level power supply routing from the cornbelt to cover the drop." Sure, but that's why you favor a regionally balanced mix of renewables, with regional peaker plants (which may not be clean/renewable, but are better than relying on dirty sources for your core needs) not geographic concentration of single sources.
- wlll 6y ago> The only real solution I see is nuclear, but that's a naughty word for some reason. I am sure that if you put your mind to it you can think of some reasons people might feel uneasy about nuclear power. It’s not like incidents involving it are that far in the past.
- kayaeb 6y agoif you look up deaths by energy production method, nuclear is far and away the safest, in every single country by orders of magnitude, even wind is deadlier.
- GekkePrutser 6y agoRight now yes. But we're creating waste that remains harmful for thousands of years and store it in facilities with a 100-year service life. It's the same kind of "leaving problems to the next generation" of current fossil-fuel use except this one is a lot more generations away.
- kayaeb 6y agoThis isn't the case with thorium salt reactors or, if we had enough funding to finally crack it, fusion.
- redis_mlc 6y ago> if you look up deaths by energy production method That's not the only dimension to analyze. The cost to decommission a nuclear plant is a deal-breaker.
- pfdietz 6y agoThe claims that solar and wind are deadlier use cooked statistics (very old numbers for wind, and dodgy assumptions about rooftop solar that don't apply the utility-scale fields that are now dominating).
- kayaeb 6y ago