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The person who blew up the bus and everybody who supports their actions defined it as 'freedom fighting'. That is how they justified killing civilians to thems

by ukj 6y ago

The person who blew up the bus and everybody who supports their actions defined it as 'freedom fighting'. That is how they justified killing civilians to themselves. Casualties of war. Just a short excursion into recent history: Nelson Mandela was once classified as a terrorist. It's because the ANC was involved in a number of bombings while engaging in 'freedom-fighting'. https://time.com/5338569/nelson-mandela-terror-list/ https://time.com/5338569/nelson-mandela-terror-list/

keiferski 6y ago
The issue isn't what particular actors think to justify their beliefs, but whether society-wide definitions are justified. This is a practical matter. As I said initially: if you stick to describing actions, rather than intents or consequences, the difficulty of defining things is much easier. Your example is also illustrating my point perfectly. Under my system, Nelson Mandela would not be a terrorist or a freedom fighter, he would be a man who engaged in both (separately) terroristic acts and freedom-fighting acts. That seems far less controversial of a statement to me.
- ukj 6y ago
  The ANC engaged in blowing up a bar full of civilians. Was that an act of terrorism or an act of freedom fighting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban_beach-front_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban_beach-front_bombing
  - keiferski 6y ago
    It seems like you aren't really reading my comments, because as I have said a few times now, this would clearly be an act of terrorism. If your next question will be, "Is the ANC then a terrorist organization?" I refer you to my previous comment where I said we should avoid labeling nouns, but instead label actions.
    - ukj 6y ago
      Why are you interpreting it that way? Labeling actions is exactly what I did. The acton was "blowing up a bar full of civilians". You labelled that action as 'terrorism'. The ANC labelled that action as 'freedom fighting'.
      - keiferski 6y ago
        You can decide that up is down and left is right, but again, as a practical matter, this is really quite irrelevant. Unless you convince a sizable portion of the population / those with power to agree with you, your aberrant labeling is simply meaningless.
        ukj 6y ago
        The ANC couldn't convince those in power to agree with them on the trivial matter of having their human rights recognised. They defined themselves as 'human'. Those in power rejected that definition. That's why they engaged in freedom fighting. Or as the National Party called it - terrorism.

by ukj 6y ago

keiferski 6y ago

The issue isn't what particular actors think to justify their beliefs, but whether society-wide definitions are justified. This is a practical matter. As I said initially: if you stick to describing actions, rather than intents or consequences, the difficulty of defining things is much easier. Your example is also illustrating my point perfectly. Under my system, Nelson Mandela would not be a terrorist or a freedom fighter, he would be a man who engaged in both (separately) terroristic acts and freedom-fighting acts. That seems far less controversial of a statement to me.

ukj 6y ago
The ANC engaged in blowing up a bar full of civilians. Was that an act of terrorism or an act of freedom fighting? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban_beach-front_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban_beach-front_bombing
- keiferski 6y ago
  It seems like you aren't really reading my comments, because as I have said a few times now, this would clearly be an act of terrorism. If your next question will be, "Is the ANC then a terrorist organization?" I refer you to my previous comment where I said we should avoid labeling nouns, but instead label actions.
  - ukj 6y ago
    Why are you interpreting it that way? Labeling actions is exactly what I did. The acton was "blowing up a bar full of civilians". You labelled that action as 'terrorism'. The ANC labelled that action as 'freedom fighting'.
    - keiferski 6y ago
      You can decide that up is down and left is right, but again, as a practical matter, this is really quite irrelevant. Unless you convince a sizable portion of the population / those with power to agree with you, your aberrant labeling is simply meaningless.
      - ukj 6y ago
        The ANC couldn't convince those in power to agree with them on the trivial matter of having their human rights recognised. They defined themselves as 'human'. Those in power rejected that definition. That's why they engaged in freedom fighting. Or as the National Party called it - terrorism.