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I'm not sure how I feel about the screenshot at the end, showing that various policy makers also have their personal information being sold. I guess the inform

I'm not sure how I feel about the screenshot at the end, showing that various policy makers also have their personal information being sold. I guess the information is out there, and doing so also makes it definitively personal for the policy makers / enforcers involved. That said, the policy makers / enforcers may be genuinely hamstrung. The US imposes its laws globally because of it's status as a global reserve currency (trading in USD requires the transaction to route via the US, thus making the entity subject to US law). The EU doesn't have such status or power over US companies. The most it can do is try to prevent them from operating in the region. As a person who almost certainly has his personal information being sold on this platform, I'm not pleased, and would love to see something done to prevent this kind of activity. Unfortunately, that depends on the US government to take action, and the last 12 years haven't been a flying endorsement of the effectiveness of the current government system. (This is not meant as an statement regarding the effectiveness of either President, but rather a regarding the low output from the system as a whole)

ivan_gammel 6y ago
EU can and should sanction such businesses, individuals behind it and their suppliers. Basically, just do the same as USA does to Nord Stream 2. This will be painful enough.
- sam_lowry_ 6y ago
  And their clients, if necessary.
josefx 6y ago
> The EU doesn't have such status or power over US companies. US companies operating in the EU are subject to EU law. Worst case the company itself doesn't operate in the EU, however that still leaves its customers (Intel, AirBnB, etc. ) potential targets to apply pressure on.
- garmaine 6y ago
  Does RocketReach have servers in the EU? Employees? Subsidiaries? I generally don’t know in this case. But in general my European friends seem to think that merely having someone from the EU access a website makes that website’s owner have a presence in the EU, even if the server that handled it isn’t. That seems like overreach to me. If that were the case, I’d block EU access for any of my domains, and I don’t think we want a future where that becomes the norm. The ideals of the Internet are free exchange of ideas and information, no country-specific walled gardens.
  - himinlomax 6y ago
    My understanding is that merely having a website that can be accessed from the EU may not by itself be enough to be subject to the GDPR. However collecting or processing data on EU citizens or residents certainly is. And almost all websites track users (even when it's not obviously useful to do so), so unless you go the USA Today route and create a site for the EU with no tracking, you have to comply. There's also the question of who they sell the data to. It's hard to see why they would sell EU citizens/residents data to companies who don't have any EU presence themselves, so at least some of their customers are bound by the GDPR as far as these are concerned. Informed consent is required at every step, so for example they would need the EU subject's consent to buy that data from RocketReach.
  - oblio 6y ago
    You do know that US law is imposed everywhere in the world, right? DMCA notices and stuff like that.
    - kodablah 6y ago
      This is not true. It is the choice of the local jurisdiction (or sometimes the company so chooses) to abide. The US does exert leverage in many situations as one might expect the EU to do. But acting as if every country is 100% beholden to US law with no sovereignty is wrong and just excuse-making. There are many places that don't respect DMCA making your statement very false.
burntoutfire 6y ago
> trading in USD requires the transaction to route via the US Is this correct? How's that enforced? Say, I have a company in Poland which sells some goods for a million dollars to another company in Poland. We both have USD accounts in Polish banks and the transfer is between these accounts. How does the money route via the US?
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  The bank will either have a presence in the US itself, or it'll have a partner that does that it'll route the transaction through. If you've done a USD transfer, it'll most likely be a SWIFT transfer, and you can ask your bank for the SWIFT routing log. You'll most likely see an NYC bank (or NYC branch of your bank) in the middle.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    I'm not sure about this. I think you're conflating SWIFT transfers with USD transfers USD is fully convertible https://www.kantox.com/en/glossary/fully-convertible-currency/ https://www.kantox.com/en/glossary/fully-convertible-currenc... I can "take dollars out of my pocket" and pay you without going through the US no problem
  - imhoguy 6y ago
    USD transfers even within same non-US based bank let's say same example in Poland is done with SWIFT, but unlikely it goes thru NYC bank as the cost is none and the transfer is instant. SWIFT is used only for addressing and accounting in such case.
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      Within the same bank it's just internal accounting. But when two different banks are involved, an USD transfer generally goes through USA.
      - dogma1138 6y ago
Vinnl 6y ago
> The EU doesn't have such status or power over US companies. The most it can do is try to prevent them from operating in the region. Wouldn't that already be quite a step? I don't know who they're selling the data to, but it should at least be possible to prevent them from selling that data to organisations with a European presence, right?

ivan_gammel 6y ago

EU can and should sanction such businesses, individuals behind it and their suppliers. Basically, just do the same as USA does to Nord Stream 2. This will be painful enough.

sam_lowry_ 6y ago
And their clients, if necessary.

josefx 6y ago

> The EU doesn't have such status or power over US companies. US companies operating in the EU are subject to EU law. Worst case the company itself doesn't operate in the EU, however that still leaves its customers (Intel, AirBnB, etc. ) potential targets to apply pressure on.

garmaine 6y ago
Does RocketReach have servers in the EU? Employees? Subsidiaries? I generally don’t know in this case. But in general my European friends seem to think that merely having someone from the EU access a website makes that website’s owner have a presence in the EU, even if the server that handled it isn’t. That seems like overreach to me. If that were the case, I’d block EU access for any of my domains, and I don’t think we want a future where that becomes the norm. The ideals of the Internet are free exchange of ideas and information, no country-specific walled gardens.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  My understanding is that merely having a website that can be accessed from the EU may not by itself be enough to be subject to the GDPR. However collecting or processing data on EU citizens or residents certainly is. And almost all websites track users (even when it's not obviously useful to do so), so unless you go the USA Today route and create a site for the EU with no tracking, you have to comply. There's also the question of who they sell the data to. It's hard to see why they would sell EU citizens/residents data to companies who don't have any EU presence themselves, so at least some of their customers are bound by the GDPR as far as these are concerned. Informed consent is required at every step, so for example they would need the EU subject's consent to buy that data from RocketReach.
- oblio 6y ago
  You do know that US law is imposed everywhere in the world, right? DMCA notices and stuff like that.
  - kodablah 6y ago
    This is not true. It is the choice of the local jurisdiction (or sometimes the company so chooses) to abide. The US does exert leverage in many situations as one might expect the EU to do. But acting as if every country is 100% beholden to US law with no sovereignty is wrong and just excuse-making. There are many places that don't respect DMCA making your statement very false.

burntoutfire 6y ago

> trading in USD requires the transaction to route via the US Is this correct? How's that enforced? Say, I have a company in Poland which sells some goods for a million dollars to another company in Poland. We both have USD accounts in Polish banks and the transfer is between these accounts. How does the money route via the US?

oarsinsync 6y ago
The bank will either have a presence in the US itself, or it'll have a partner that does that it'll route the transaction through. If you've done a USD transfer, it'll most likely be a SWIFT transfer, and you can ask your bank for the SWIFT routing log. You'll most likely see an NYC bank (or NYC branch of your bank) in the middle.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  I'm not sure about this. I think you're conflating SWIFT transfers with USD transfers USD is fully convertible https://www.kantox.com/en/glossary/fully-convertible-currency/ https://www.kantox.com/en/glossary/fully-convertible-currenc... I can "take dollars out of my pocket" and pay you without going through the US no problem
- imhoguy 6y ago
  USD transfers even within same non-US based bank let's say same example in Poland is done with SWIFT, but unlikely it goes thru NYC bank as the cost is none and the transfer is instant. SWIFT is used only for addressing and accounting in such case.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Within the same bank it's just internal accounting. But when two different banks are involved, an USD transfer generally goes through USA.
    - dogma1138 6y ago

Vinnl 6y ago

> The EU doesn't have such status or power over US companies. The most it can do is try to prevent them from operating in the region. Wouldn't that already be quite a step? I don't know who they're selling the data to, but it should at least be possible to prevent them from selling that data to organisations with a European presence, right?