7 ms·

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle

46 points by apsec112 6y ago

austincheney 6y ago
This guidance was missed 6 weeks ago when people wanted to talk about the horrors of police brutality. The way I see it is if a person’s intent is seeking either sympathy or any social value proposition HN is likely not the ideal venue. It’s like the taboo of talking about politics in the office for those of us who don’t live in the valley where that is more generally accepted.
- smt88 6y ago
  > It’s like the taboo of talking about politics in the office How would you define "talking about politics"? Does it include talking about government? If so, all of the Snowden leaks are off the table. What about policy? That seemingly covers universal basic income, entrepreneurship incentives, etc. News stories about tech companies? Most of those are constantly in the news for enraging the entire political spectrum. What about government clients, as it also relates to policy? We'd basically never talk about Palantir on here again. I don't see any way to talk about tech companies, entrepeneurship, (technology) business, philosophy, or most other interesting HN topics without crossing into something that most people consider too political for office conversation.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    If you are a general officer of a company and discussion of a political subject is necessary for the sake only of business continuity then it becomes necessary to discuss politics at work. That is an extremely narrow edge case. Otherwise if you are perplexed at what construes a political discussion you are most likely looking for any excuse to knowingly engage in politics. This sort of deliberate dishonesty is one reason I refuse to move to the Bay Area where such behavior is commonly accepted.
    - smt88 6y ago
      I sincerely asked you what defines a political comment. If you have a neat and easily-applicable definition, I'd love to know what it is. I don't have one, and I don't think most people do. That was my point. I have no idea where the Bay Area part come from or why you think I'm being dishonest. Perhaps you interpret rhetorical questions as dishonest?
- dang 6y ago
  Politics has never been completely off topic on HN. It's a grey area that needs to be decided case by case (i.e. thread by thread)—which unfortunately satisfies no one, but no other solution that I'm aware of is remotely feasible. It's neither desirable nor possible to ban all topics with political overlap (which includes most topics, after all); nor can we just let all political flames burn, because the site would become scorched earth in short order. I've written extensive explanations about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20political%20overlap&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... If anyone reads those and has a question that isn't answered yet, I'd like to know what it is. Some good threads to start with might be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902396. Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869, which shows how far back political discussion goes on HN, as well as the argument about politics on HN.
poma88 6y ago
It is good to make it clear ahead of elections. Still, every piece of information contains a degree of such dimensions, intentionally or not.
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
>Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for. I don't understand how those two sentences are related. I've never heard a political or ideological battle explained as being "curiosity destroying".
- dang 6y ago
  In ideological battle the goal is to defeat enemies. In curious conversation the goal is to learn from each other. One is a fight to the finish, the other is open exchange. These don't go together, for the same reason that boxing and dancing don't go together. It's obvious if you observe how people behave in ideological battle. They do not receive information from one another and then change. Rather, they use points as weapons to try to crush the other side. Here's the crux from an HN point of view: because the goal is to win rather than to learn, each side resorts to its best weapons over and over. In other words, each side behaves repetitively. Repetition fries curiosity. Since HN is for curiosity, we try to minimize repetition [1]. In battle, repetition is crucial because there are only so many ways to hit the other side and you need to do it over and over in order to win. If you don't repeat, you don't survive. But curiosity looks for something new over what has already been said or done. Curiosity wants the diffs [2]. Imagine software that would compare two threads A and B and output only the logical diffs of what was said in A vs. B. (that is, not diffs between the exact words used, but between the thoughts and feelings expressed). How much output would it produce when A and B are flamewars on the same subject? Virtually zero. That's the salient issue for HN. The best HN posts are the ones that can't be predicted from any previous sequence [3], and flamewars are the most predictable from the previous sequence. There are other aspects too. Here's one. In battle mode, the nervous system goes into fight/flight mode, which triggers reflexive responses in people. You can observe this by sensing how you react when you encounter the weapons of the opposing side on the internet. This state is incompatible with curious exchange, in which we learn new things from each other and adapt. Human beings require a certain relaxation in order to be open to each other in this way—again, anyone can observe this in the difference between when they're angrily defending vs. playfully interacting. The difference between the two styles of conversation—reflexive vs. reflective, closed vs. open—is palpable and stark. They can't happen at the same time and on HN we want one and not the other [4]. I hope it's clear that the issue is not politics as such [5]. To the extent that one can have curious conversation about political topics in which people exchange information, learn from each other, reflect on what the other says and take in any truth in it instead of getting triggered by it, and don't simply repeat things, such conversation is within the site guidelines. Of course it's hard for such threads not to collapse into a high-indignation-low-information state. Nevertheless, that's what we ask users here to do, and that's what the guideline quoted by the OP is getting at. We have to, because if we don't, the forum will burn itself to a crisp [6]. Flamewars, especially political flamewars, have many secondary effects, and the chance of getting into a destructive feedback loop is high. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20curiosity%20repetition&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20discussion&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20diffs&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20can%27t%20predict%20from%20sequence&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20reflective%20reflex&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [5] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20political%20overlap&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [6] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20crisp%20burn&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
sidcool 6y ago
I totally agree. I tell this to my friends too. Not every forum and platform is to argue about politics. There are some people who do not concern themselves with these issues. Some such people continue working on what they love. Not everyone needs to be dragged into the pit of political mudslinging. HN should talk about FOSS, privacy and anything tech activism.
mkolodny 6y ago
I come to HN to discuss ideas. What's the difference between an "ideological battle" and discussing ideas?
- wtallis 6y ago
  I think ideological battle is a matter of the manner of discussing ideas. Hallmarks include: posting the same argument in multiple places within a thread and in multiple threads in a short timespan; dragging a peripherally related discussion toward well-known contentious issues; repeating popular catchphrases, slogans and talking points with little regard for how well they apply to the specific instance of a topic under discussion; using shallow predictable arguments of the sort found in TV sound bites rather than more sound and nuanced arguments; little or no participation in non-political threads on HN; refusing to acknowledge the weaknesses or downsides of your own positions; making lots of pronouncements and declarations rather than asking lots of questions.
- sidcool 6y ago
  HN is focussed mainly on technology ideology, not a political one strictly.
- Guthur 6y ago
  Because idealogical battles are very rarely what a reasonable person would describe as a discussion. They're often just two sides shouting over each other.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  ideological battle: Burn the heretics! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. ὁμοιούσιον! ὁμοούσιον! discussing ideas: What do the heretics think? How much do we (up to substitution of vocabulary) agree upon? What parts of the heresy are worth stealing and rebranding as orthodoxy? For that matter, what is the relative importance of orthodoxy and orthopraxy, anyway? compare "WE DON'T DANCE": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591306
- non-entity 6y ago
  In my experience on highly political threads, the battle is in the votes more than the discussion.
jonny_eh 6y ago
Someone should tell PG, his last two blog posts were about “cancel culture”.
- snowwrestler 6y ago
  To be fair, I don’t think he posted them to HN.
- Guthur 6y ago
  Hackernews is not a personal blog where you could acceptably express your own personal political opinions
  - Guthur 6y ago
    Are there any factual mistakes in what I've written or are the down votes case in point that a particular political group is incapable of even hearing defence of someone's right to express opinion on their personal blog that does not align with said group's political view.
    - happytoexplain 6y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but it's petty to insist the only reasons you could possibly be downvoted are that you made "factual mistakes", or the other person is some kind of awful irrational idiot.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dvh 6y ago
Are tabs vs spaces ideological battle?
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  set expandtab ...though in my experience ironically referencing the subjects of common flame wars, with the intention of collectively rolling our eyes at how silly flame wars are, usually results in flame wars. Maybe not here though. Emacs users, I love you.
  - thyrsus 6y ago
    I use both vi and emacs. I find vi quicker under my fingers, but more complex things are easier for me in emacs: compare-windows, keyboard macros, the shell in a window (especially since it became smart about passwords a decade or more ago). There may be vim equivalents I don't know of. Peace. :-)
- dang 6y ago
  Somewhat, but hot as those flames burn, they don't bring up the same depth of life-and-death emotion that real battle does. When people feel existentially threatened—which is very much how it feels in political battle—we go into survival mode, and in survival mode there is zero ability or willingness to see the other side as human. How does that manifest in internet forums? As snark, as name-calling, as refusal to acknowledge any truth in the opposing comment, a willingness to distort whatever is said in order to get the upper hand over it—basically, all the conceptual equivalents to what you would do physically if someone were literally trying to kill you. One would think that the relative triviality and distance of internet conversation would allow for greater feelings of safety, but in practice it's exactly the opposite. It seems to provide the perfect blank screen on which to project all our shadows, and so we end up feeling surrounded by demons: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=demons%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so..., and since they're demons of our own creation, they know exactly where all our sore spots and vulnerabilities are, and keep activating them unerringly.
s9w 6y ago
I just wish things would be enforced more strictly. If you look at the comments being punished, a lot of clearly political statements get ignored while others don't - even if they just correct wrong statements. It's the tiring and commonplace way of "ban everything, enforce selectively". Same with r/cpp r/programming unfortunately.
- dang 6y ago
  If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing everything that gets posted to HN—there's far too much. You can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20likeliest&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you think that one side gets consistently moderated while the other side doesn't—on whatever divisive topic—then you might be falling prey to the notice/dislike bias: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Because of that bias, all sides feel like the site, the community, and the moderators are lined up against them, and they make interchangeable statements about it (except for the bit about which sides are supposedly favored).
stareatgoats 6y ago
Good reminder. Especially in US presidential election season, but else-while too: there are few places where ideological opponents can come together for a rational discussion. HN comes closer to such a place than any other I know. Ironic that is has been flagged.
Yetanfou 6y ago
If only things were so easy. Alas, things are not that simple, at all. Just try to discuss a project which automates the creation of a whitelist for master/slave connections which you'll be using when you attend the black hat conference and you'll find out you just violated 4 new rulings-on-speech without having the slightest clue as to why - unless you've been following those maligned discussions on politics and ideology that is. In short, when everything has been politicised it is impossible to discuss anything without involving politics.
loopz 6y ago
Get your house in order, or enabling fascism will be a pointless exercise. Discussion here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/22/portland-constitution-dhs-crackdown-legality/?outputType=comment https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/22/portland-c...
Simulacra 6y ago
Please don’t use Y Combinator for political or ideological demagoguery.
gchambert 6y ago
Who still believes in 2020 that technology isn't political? Have you never heard of the impact of Facebook or Twitter on our societies? Cambridge Analytica, anyone? It lead to Brexit & Trump... Any technology changes society, thus has a political impact. Trying to hide it is ideological. Does HN promote this ideology only? Or does it welcome various points of view?

46 points by apsec112 6y ago

This guidance was missed 6 weeks ago when people wanted to talk about the horrors of police brutality. The way I see it is if a person’s intent is seeking either sympathy or any social value proposition HN is likely not the ideal venue. It’s like the taboo of talking about politics in the office for those of us who don’t live in the valley where that is more generally accepted.

smt88 6y ago
> It’s like the taboo of talking about politics in the office How would you define "talking about politics"? Does it include talking about government? If so, all of the Snowden leaks are off the table. What about policy? That seemingly covers universal basic income, entrepreneurship incentives, etc. News stories about tech companies? Most of those are constantly in the news for enraging the entire political spectrum. What about government clients, as it also relates to policy? We'd basically never talk about Palantir on here again. I don't see any way to talk about tech companies, entrepeneurship, (technology) business, philosophy, or most other interesting HN topics without crossing into something that most people consider too political for office conversation.
- austincheney 6y ago
  If you are a general officer of a company and discussion of a political subject is necessary for the sake only of business continuity then it becomes necessary to discuss politics at work. That is an extremely narrow edge case. Otherwise if you are perplexed at what construes a political discussion you are most likely looking for any excuse to knowingly engage in politics. This sort of deliberate dishonesty is one reason I refuse to move to the Bay Area where such behavior is commonly accepted.
  - smt88 6y ago
    I sincerely asked you what defines a political comment. If you have a neat and easily-applicable definition, I'd love to know what it is. I don't have one, and I don't think most people do. That was my point. I have no idea where the Bay Area part come from or why you think I'm being dishonest. Perhaps you interpret rhetorical questions as dishonest?
dang 6y ago
Politics has never been completely off topic on HN. It's a grey area that needs to be decided case by case (i.e. thread by thread)—which unfortunately satisfies no one, but no other solution that I'm aware of is remotely feasible. It's neither desirable nor possible to ban all topics with political overlap (which includes most topics, after all); nor can we just let all political flames burn, because the site would become scorched earth in short order. I've written extensive explanations about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20political%20overlap&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... If anyone reads those and has a question that isn't answered yet, I'd like to know what it is. Some good threads to start with might be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902396. Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869, which shows how far back political discussion goes on HN, as well as the argument about politics on HN.

poma88 6y ago

It is good to make it clear ahead of elections. Still, every piece of information contains a degree of such dimensions, intentionally or not.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

>Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for. I don't understand how those two sentences are related. I've never heard a political or ideological battle explained as being "curiosity destroying".

dang 6y ago
In ideological battle the goal is to defeat enemies. In curious conversation the goal is to learn from each other. One is a fight to the finish, the other is open exchange. These don't go together, for the same reason that boxing and dancing don't go together. It's obvious if you observe how people behave in ideological battle. They do not receive information from one another and then change. Rather, they use points as weapons to try to crush the other side. Here's the crux from an HN point of view: because the goal is to win rather than to learn, each side resorts to its best weapons over and over. In other words, each side behaves repetitively. Repetition fries curiosity. Since HN is for curiosity, we try to minimize repetition [1]. In battle, repetition is crucial because there are only so many ways to hit the other side and you need to do it over and over in order to win. If you don't repeat, you don't survive. But curiosity looks for something new over what has already been said or done. Curiosity wants the diffs [2]. Imagine software that would compare two threads A and B and output only the logical diffs of what was said in A vs. B. (that is, not diffs between the exact words used, but between the thoughts and feelings expressed). How much output would it produce when A and B are flamewars on the same subject? Virtually zero. That's the salient issue for HN. The best HN posts are the ones that can't be predicted from any previous sequence [3], and flamewars are the most predictable from the previous sequence. There are other aspects too. Here's one. In battle mode, the nervous system goes into fight/flight mode, which triggers reflexive responses in people. You can observe this by sensing how you react when you encounter the weapons of the opposing side on the internet. This state is incompatible with curious exchange, in which we learn new things from each other and adapt. Human beings require a certain relaxation in order to be open to each other in this way—again, anyone can observe this in the difference between when they're angrily defending vs. playfully interacting. The difference between the two styles of conversation—reflexive vs. reflective, closed vs. open—is palpable and stark. They can't happen at the same time and on HN we want one and not the other [4]. I hope it's clear that the issue is not politics as such [5]. To the extent that one can have curious conversation about political topics in which people exchange information, learn from each other, reflect on what the other says and take in any truth in it instead of getting triggered by it, and don't simply repeat things, such conversation is within the site guidelines. Of course it's hard for such threads not to collapse into a high-indignation-low-information state. Nevertheless, that's what we ask users here to do, and that's what the guideline quoted by the OP is getting at. We have to, because if we don't, the forum will burn itself to a crisp [6]. Flamewars, especially political flamewars, have many secondary effects, and the chance of getting into a destructive feedback loop is high. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20curiosity%20repetition&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20discussion&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20diffs&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20can%27t%20predict%20from%20sequence&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20reflective%20reflex&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [5] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20political%20overlap&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [6] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20crisp%20burn&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

sidcool 6y ago

I totally agree. I tell this to my friends too. Not every forum and platform is to argue about politics. There are some people who do not concern themselves with these issues. Some such people continue working on what they love. Not everyone needs to be dragged into the pit of political mudslinging. HN should talk about FOSS, privacy and anything tech activism.

mkolodny 6y ago

I come to HN to discuss ideas. What's the difference between an "ideological battle" and discussing ideas?

wtallis 6y ago
I think ideological battle is a matter of the manner of discussing ideas. Hallmarks include: posting the same argument in multiple places within a thread and in multiple threads in a short timespan; dragging a peripherally related discussion toward well-known contentious issues; repeating popular catchphrases, slogans and talking points with little regard for how well they apply to the specific instance of a topic under discussion; using shallow predictable arguments of the sort found in TV sound bites rather than more sound and nuanced arguments; little or no participation in non-political threads on HN; refusing to acknowledge the weaknesses or downsides of your own positions; making lots of pronouncements and declarations rather than asking lots of questions.
sidcool 6y ago
HN is focussed mainly on technology ideology, not a political one strictly.
Guthur 6y ago
Because idealogical battles are very rarely what a reasonable person would describe as a discussion. They're often just two sides shouting over each other.
082349872349872 6y ago
ideological battle: Burn the heretics! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. ὁμοιούσιον! ὁμοούσιον! discussing ideas: What do the heretics think? How much do we (up to substitution of vocabulary) agree upon? What parts of the heresy are worth stealing and rebranding as orthodoxy? For that matter, what is the relative importance of orthodoxy and orthopraxy, anyway? compare "WE DON'T DANCE": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591306
non-entity 6y ago
In my experience on highly political threads, the battle is in the votes more than the discussion.

jonny_eh 6y ago

Someone should tell PG, his last two blog posts were about “cancel culture”.

snowwrestler 6y ago
To be fair, I don’t think he posted them to HN.
Guthur 6y ago
Hackernews is not a personal blog where you could acceptably express your own personal political opinions
- Guthur 6y ago
  Are there any factual mistakes in what I've written or are the down votes case in point that a particular political group is incapable of even hearing defence of someone's right to express opinion on their personal blog that does not align with said group's political view.
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    I didn't downvote you, but it's petty to insist the only reasons you could possibly be downvoted are that you made "factual mistakes", or the other person is some kind of awful irrational idiot.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dvh 6y ago

Are tabs vs spaces ideological battle?

gorgoiler 6y ago
set expandtab ...though in my experience ironically referencing the subjects of common flame wars, with the intention of collectively rolling our eyes at how silly flame wars are, usually results in flame wars. Maybe not here though. Emacs users, I love you.
- thyrsus 6y ago
  I use both vi and emacs. I find vi quicker under my fingers, but more complex things are easier for me in emacs: compare-windows, keyboard macros, the shell in a window (especially since it became smart about passwords a decade or more ago). There may be vim equivalents I don't know of. Peace. :-)
dang 6y ago
Somewhat, but hot as those flames burn, they don't bring up the same depth of life-and-death emotion that real battle does. When people feel existentially threatened—which is very much how it feels in political battle—we go into survival mode, and in survival mode there is zero ability or willingness to see the other side as human. How does that manifest in internet forums? As snark, as name-calling, as refusal to acknowledge any truth in the opposing comment, a willingness to distort whatever is said in order to get the upper hand over it—basically, all the conceptual equivalents to what you would do physically if someone were literally trying to kill you. One would think that the relative triviality and distance of internet conversation would allow for greater feelings of safety, but in practice it's exactly the opposite. It seems to provide the perfect blank screen on which to project all our shadows, and so we end up feeling surrounded by demons: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=demons%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so..., and since they're demons of our own creation, they know exactly where all our sore spots and vulnerabilities are, and keep activating them unerringly.

s9w 6y ago

I just wish things would be enforced more strictly. If you look at the comments being punished, a lot of clearly political statements get ignored while others don't - even if they just correct wrong statements. It's the tiring and commonplace way of "ban everything, enforce selectively". Same with r/cpp r/programming unfortunately.

dang 6y ago
If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing everything that gets posted to HN—there's far too much. You can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20likeliest&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you think that one side gets consistently moderated while the other side doesn't—on whatever divisive topic—then you might be falling prey to the notice/dislike bias: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Because of that bias, all sides feel like the site, the community, and the moderators are lined up against them, and they make interchangeable statements about it (except for the bit about which sides are supposedly favored).

stareatgoats 6y ago

Good reminder. Especially in US presidential election season, but else-while too: there are few places where ideological opponents can come together for a rational discussion. HN comes closer to such a place than any other I know. Ironic that is has been flagged.

Yetanfou 6y ago

If only things were so easy. Alas, things are not that simple, at all. Just try to discuss a project which automates the creation of a whitelist for master/slave connections which you'll be using when you attend the black hat conference and you'll find out you just violated 4 new rulings-on-speech without having the slightest clue as to why - unless you've been following those maligned discussions on politics and ideology that is. In short, when everything has been politicised it is impossible to discuss anything without involving politics.

loopz 6y ago

Get your house in order, or enabling fascism will be a pointless exercise. Discussion here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/22/portland-constitution-dhs-crackdown-legality/?outputType=comment https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/22/portland-c...

Simulacra 6y ago

Please don’t use Y Combinator for political or ideological demagoguery.

gchambert 6y ago

Who still believes in 2020 that technology isn't political? Have you never heard of the impact of Facebook or Twitter on our societies? Cambridge Analytica, anyone? It lead to Brexit & Trump... Any technology changes society, thus has a political impact. Trying to hide it is ideological. Does HN promote this ideology only? Or does it welcome various points of view?