4 ms·

PHP rocks in 2020. Couple it with laravel or something and you get a solid platform to build a monolith-type web app with really fast performance.

bnt 6y ago
Isn’t Laravel the worst performing framework out there right now, like even Rails looks like a viable option in terms of speed?
- jonny383 6y ago
  Ruby is slower than PHP7+ by orders of magnitude. I doubt it.
  - amval 6y ago
    Orders of magnitude? Do you thibk that PHP is at least x100 times faster than Ruby?
    - jonny383 6y ago
      Alright, maybe an exaggeration. But the difference is huge. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/php-yarv.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
      - tutfbhuf 6y ago
        Well that is a benchmark with a set of specific mathematical problems like calculating pi digits. I would rather compare Rails with Laravel e.g. in terms of requests per second or speed of json deserialization. See https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ Symfony, Lumen and Rails seems to be somewhat equal in performance, but Laravel is a bit slower in respect to the benchmarked web related criterions.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  > Isn’t Laravel the worst performing framework out there right now. I'm more of a Symfony than Laravel guy but I've done both enough to know that application architecture and environment configuration has more of an impact than either framework's "performance" does. Silly things are slow in most web frameworks.
- fraktl 6y ago
  No. Laravel performs quite nicely. Rails can't be compared to Laravel, it's slower by an order of magnitude, as mentioned previously. Any framework bears overhead, they all optimize programmer's time invested into solving the problem. It's cheaper to buy hardware and scale horizontally rather than swap languages and frameworks hunting for performance. PHP being synchronous by nature is what limits its performance, but we have Swoole that fixes it and makes it faster. For the ones who will google what Swoole is, some benchmarks I've done on my laptop show 5x (yes, 5 times, 500%) increase in performance when Laravel is ran via Swoole.
  - tutfbhuf 6y ago
    > No. Laravel performs quite nicely. Rails can't be compared to Laravel, it's slower by an order of magnitude, as mentioned previously No, that's outright wrong. Please see the well respected techempower web benchmark: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ > For the ones who will google what Swoole is, some benchmarks I've done on my laptop show 5x (yes, 5 times, 500%) increase in performance when Laravel is ran via Swoole. Yup, that seems to be correct. What are the drawbacks of Swoole?
    - fraktl 6y ago
      > No, that's outright wrong. Please see the well respected techempower web benchmark: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ I just notified the servers I've to manage (and my coworkers) that we're outright wrong and the load we're seeing is phantasm and that guy from internet told us so since he linked the well respected techempower benchmarks, which apparently reflect real world situation :)
      - tutfbhuf 6y ago
        If you and your co-workers have both Rails and Laravel in production and your Laravel applications performs better, then I have absolutely no doubt about that. However, there is no evidence that Rails is an order of magnitude slower than Laravel in general, quite the contrary, benchmarks indicating that (non-swoole) Laravel is slower.
- Can_Not 6y ago
  The last time I looked at a rails-clone framework speed comparison chart rails was the slowest, with some Sinatra clones being the fastest.
noir_lord 6y ago
It's gotten a lot better since I started using it ~2009 and now. 7.4 added typed properties. 8 is adding better caching, a jit and my favourite feature match() https://php.watch/versions/8.0#match-expression https://php.watch/versions/8.0#match-expression for all the enterprise heavy stuff I write a nicer cleaner and safer (by default) alternative to switch is going to make some code much cleaner to write and read and really that is what I care about more than almost anything else. That it also returns a value is just the cherry on top. I am so tired of reading bad code with poor intent that has no comments and no documentation that's written in the most counter intuitive way.
- admissionsguy 6y ago
  The match expression is so elegant. For the past 10 years I've been puzzled by how verbose switch is.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    It's better than switch for a lot of switch use cases, it's still not 'real' pattern matching but yeah I'm looking forwards to it.
- untog 6y ago
  Match looks exactly how Rust’s match works and it’s one of my favourite parts of the language. Happy to see it elsewhere too.
  - epse 6y ago
    It doesn't really pattern match like rust, but it's still very useful
    - nawarian 6y ago
      Not yet: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/match_expression_v2#future_scope https://wiki.php.net/rfc/match_expression_v2#future_scope

bnt 6y ago

Isn’t Laravel the worst performing framework out there right now, like even Rails looks like a viable option in terms of speed?

jonny383 6y ago
Ruby is slower than PHP7+ by orders of magnitude. I doubt it.
- amval 6y ago
  Orders of magnitude? Do you thibk that PHP is at least x100 times faster than Ruby?
  - jonny383 6y ago
    Alright, maybe an exaggeration. But the difference is huge. https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/php-yarv.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
    - tutfbhuf 6y ago
      Well that is a benchmark with a set of specific mathematical problems like calculating pi digits. I would rather compare Rails with Laravel e.g. in terms of requests per second or speed of json deserialization. See https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ Symfony, Lumen and Rails seems to be somewhat equal in performance, but Laravel is a bit slower in respect to the benchmarked web related criterions.
noir_lord 6y ago
> Isn’t Laravel the worst performing framework out there right now. I'm more of a Symfony than Laravel guy but I've done both enough to know that application architecture and environment configuration has more of an impact than either framework's "performance" does. Silly things are slow in most web frameworks.
fraktl 6y ago
No. Laravel performs quite nicely. Rails can't be compared to Laravel, it's slower by an order of magnitude, as mentioned previously. Any framework bears overhead, they all optimize programmer's time invested into solving the problem. It's cheaper to buy hardware and scale horizontally rather than swap languages and frameworks hunting for performance. PHP being synchronous by nature is what limits its performance, but we have Swoole that fixes it and makes it faster. For the ones who will google what Swoole is, some benchmarks I've done on my laptop show 5x (yes, 5 times, 500%) increase in performance when Laravel is ran via Swoole.
- tutfbhuf 6y ago
  > No. Laravel performs quite nicely. Rails can't be compared to Laravel, it's slower by an order of magnitude, as mentioned previously No, that's outright wrong. Please see the well respected techempower web benchmark: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ > For the ones who will google what Swoole is, some benchmarks I've done on my laptop show 5x (yes, 5 times, 500%) increase in performance when Laravel is ran via Swoole. Yup, that seems to be correct. What are the drawbacks of Swoole?
  - fraktl 6y ago
    > No, that's outright wrong. Please see the well respected techempower web benchmark: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ I just notified the servers I've to manage (and my coworkers) that we're outright wrong and the load we're seeing is phantasm and that guy from internet told us so since he linked the well respected techempower benchmarks, which apparently reflect real world situation :)
    - tutfbhuf 6y ago
      If you and your co-workers have both Rails and Laravel in production and your Laravel applications performs better, then I have absolutely no doubt about that. However, there is no evidence that Rails is an order of magnitude slower than Laravel in general, quite the contrary, benchmarks indicating that (non-swoole) Laravel is slower.
Can_Not 6y ago
The last time I looked at a rails-clone framework speed comparison chart rails was the slowest, with some Sinatra clones being the fastest.

noir_lord 6y ago

It's gotten a lot better since I started using it ~2009 and now. 7.4 added typed properties. 8 is adding better caching, a jit and my favourite feature match() https://php.watch/versions/8.0#match-expression https://php.watch/versions/8.0#match-expression for all the enterprise heavy stuff I write a nicer cleaner and safer (by default) alternative to switch is going to make some code much cleaner to write and read and really that is what I care about more than almost anything else. That it also returns a value is just the cherry on top. I am so tired of reading bad code with poor intent that has no comments and no documentation that's written in the most counter intuitive way.

admissionsguy 6y ago
The match expression is so elegant. For the past 10 years I've been puzzled by how verbose switch is.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  It's better than switch for a lot of switch use cases, it's still not 'real' pattern matching but yeah I'm looking forwards to it.
untog 6y ago
Match looks exactly how Rust’s match works and it’s one of my favourite parts of the language. Happy to see it elsewhere too.
- epse 6y ago
  It doesn't really pattern match like rust, but it's still very useful
  - nawarian 6y ago
    Not yet: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/match_expression_v2#future_scope https://wiki.php.net/rfc/match_expression_v2#future_scope