5 ms·

1. Selling real estate, raising kids, planning for various future investments and opportunities. 2. I was in software for 20+ years. It was all I had ever want

1. Selling real estate, raising kids, planning for various future investments and opportunities. 2. I was in software for 20+ years. It was all I had ever wanted to do from the time I was 13. In hindsight, I’d say you have a phase of the moon in which to make your money and get out. It’s a brutal industry and you will likely face burn out at some point and you need to be prepared for that moment. I was in many different roles and responsibilities over that time, but the bottom line was I hit a point where none of it was fun, the clients were a pain in the ass, and it was just time to do something else that better fit my life. If a young person came to me and asked for career advice, I’d be very direct about what to do and not do in a tech related field.

dclusin 6y ago
What should we not do? Not new just curious about your reflections on the industry job functions.
ilyas121 6y ago
Same, graduating in a year and interested in advice.
- dencodev 6y ago
  As a long time senior dev who's desperate to get out of development right now because I'm sick of it, my overwhelming advice is to be sure you're working at places where you can grow. I job hopped from one consultancy to another, getting great pay jumps each time but doing the same thing. And the places I've worked are small - there's literally no job opening to move into, or any way to make a new job. It's really hard right now to transition to something new while also seeking out a new employer. They see my years of a senior software engineer and probably bin my resume because they probably think my salary expectations are too high or I'm poorly suited to something closer to project management, despite having a lot of PM experience and listing it on my resume. It's just never been a job title. Transitioning to something different, or more niche, is much much easier when done internally and the people there know you.
  - dclusin 6y ago
    I currently have a side project that's really challenging and broad in scope. It requires me to learn how to do things I've never done before (machine learning & computer vision). It's more involved than just following an l2tensorflow shitpost, as I'm going through the entire ML dev cycle w/ it. I'm also the one that gets to decide what programming aspects to work on and when to deliver them (since i'm the sole stakeholder). I think this helps me deal with the whims of my BigCo job, in the sense that when ever the requirements/tools get silly I can just take relief in my side project being intellectually stimulating. Is it programming you've grown to dislike or your employer? Also I don't have kids so I realize that a side project as a prescription is most likely untenable for people with families.
    - dencodev 6y ago
      I don't have kids and never will so that's not an issue. That's a good question. I honestly don't know. I've also tried to recently learn some machine learning/AI stuff and the motivation is just completely gone. It's impossible for me to open my IDE and not dread it. I feel like I have a mental block for learning and I just give so few shits about anything software related right now I can't focus long enough to pick up anything new. Maybe I'm burnt out. Maybe if I take some time off then try to approach something new I will find some sort of joy in it. I think I am definitely struggling because I've done what I do (full stack web dev) for SO LONG. I've been making websites since I was 10 and I'm in my thirties now. My employer is kind but boring. I don't have a personal relationship with anyone there and have been 100% remote from the start for my past couple jobs, which doesn't lend itself well to building relationships (for me, anyway). I would love to transition to doing something more team oriented, more social, doing something cool with cool people. I'm in Seattle and have applied to a couple Bungie jobs, and I would absolutely love the chance to just help build some video games as a project manager, even if I was getting paid a third of what I am now. Unfortunately the job market is horrendous, cool jobs are hyper competitive, and trying to transition to something new while also changing employers is super hard. It's all working against me.
      - dclusin 6y ago
bouk 6y ago
Why do you consider tech brutal?
- grumple 6y ago
  Do we work in the same field? It’s mentally exhausting. You get into it thinking you’re gonna build cool shit, instead you jump through hoops for business school grads as they come up with shitty ideas and try to apply their shitty high pressure motivation tactics on you.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Not just shitty ideas, but half-baked, unexplained, shitty ideas. What I wouldn't give for complete requirements.
  - draw_down 6y ago
    Amen
  - calvinv 6y ago
    There’s a lot to how you deal with this, I think developers are eager and they either burn out chasing missing requirements or settle into a slower more considered work flow. If you’re at a company where they shout at you for not delivering something they didn’t ask for or asked for yesterday then you’re at the wrong place
mmiinnhhaazz 6y ago
Any advice for getting into real estate? Seems oversaturated to me
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  Depends entirely on your location and specifically what you want to do as real estate is a really big space from brokers to house flippers to property managers. I've got a friend who has been in Seattle real estate for decades - he has commented many times about how in flush times people rush in to RE for the money, then run away when the market cycles down. We've seen the same thing in tech - some of us are old enough to remember the Dotcom crash and are a bit bemused at the irrational exuberance of the past 5+ years in tech, as it too will likely have an eventual cycle. Point being - there are a lot of ways to make money in this world - plenty of plumbers and welders with nice houses and cars - so pick something you enjoy, not just something that feels like there's a lot of money flooding that direction.
amerkhalid 6y ago
This is funny, last year, I got my real estate license too. And my reasons were also a bit similar though I don't really want to leave software dev completely. The ideal situation for me would be to work on my own projects, while real estate business pays the bills. For years, I used to write code after work and that started to get very draining. However, I haven't really started real estate business properly, and still have day job. Do you have any advice for software devs to transition to real estate?
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  My contact info is in my profile, feel free to reach out as it might be a longer conversation than we can have here. That said - it's like everyone says about startups: focus. You have to be clear about what you want to do with real estate, as it is a really big space. My partner and I have a pretty clear 10+ year picture of what we want to do in our local market. I don't know DFW apart from a couple business trips there in the past, so you'd know better than myself what opportunities exist there. One thing I'll note: people often disregard real estate as a "backup career". It takes a very broad skill set - everything from marketing to finance to construction and design skills, along with a whole lot of psychology, to do it right. The reason I point this out is that unless you are in a market that is just completely flush with opportunities, you really need to be committed to it and not just as a sideline if you want to understand what's happening in your market and how to compete successfully. In my own area I see a lot of part-timers who don't really understand market dynamics and they screw over a lot of their clients as a result and/or make poor investment choices. Just like all the startup advice you've ever received: have a plan and just do it.
  - amerkhalid 6y ago
    Thank you, that is a good advice. I will follow up with you later when I am ready to focus, if you don't mind.

dclusin 6y ago

What should we not do? Not new just curious about your reflections on the industry job functions.

ilyas121 6y ago

Same, graduating in a year and interested in advice.

dencodev 6y ago
As a long time senior dev who's desperate to get out of development right now because I'm sick of it, my overwhelming advice is to be sure you're working at places where you can grow. I job hopped from one consultancy to another, getting great pay jumps each time but doing the same thing. And the places I've worked are small - there's literally no job opening to move into, or any way to make a new job. It's really hard right now to transition to something new while also seeking out a new employer. They see my years of a senior software engineer and probably bin my resume because they probably think my salary expectations are too high or I'm poorly suited to something closer to project management, despite having a lot of PM experience and listing it on my resume. It's just never been a job title. Transitioning to something different, or more niche, is much much easier when done internally and the people there know you.
- dclusin 6y ago
  I currently have a side project that's really challenging and broad in scope. It requires me to learn how to do things I've never done before (machine learning & computer vision). It's more involved than just following an l2tensorflow shitpost, as I'm going through the entire ML dev cycle w/ it. I'm also the one that gets to decide what programming aspects to work on and when to deliver them (since i'm the sole stakeholder). I think this helps me deal with the whims of my BigCo job, in the sense that when ever the requirements/tools get silly I can just take relief in my side project being intellectually stimulating. Is it programming you've grown to dislike or your employer? Also I don't have kids so I realize that a side project as a prescription is most likely untenable for people with families.
  - dencodev 6y ago
    I don't have kids and never will so that's not an issue. That's a good question. I honestly don't know. I've also tried to recently learn some machine learning/AI stuff and the motivation is just completely gone. It's impossible for me to open my IDE and not dread it. I feel like I have a mental block for learning and I just give so few shits about anything software related right now I can't focus long enough to pick up anything new. Maybe I'm burnt out. Maybe if I take some time off then try to approach something new I will find some sort of joy in it. I think I am definitely struggling because I've done what I do (full stack web dev) for SO LONG. I've been making websites since I was 10 and I'm in my thirties now. My employer is kind but boring. I don't have a personal relationship with anyone there and have been 100% remote from the start for my past couple jobs, which doesn't lend itself well to building relationships (for me, anyway). I would love to transition to doing something more team oriented, more social, doing something cool with cool people. I'm in Seattle and have applied to a couple Bungie jobs, and I would absolutely love the chance to just help build some video games as a project manager, even if I was getting paid a third of what I am now. Unfortunately the job market is horrendous, cool jobs are hyper competitive, and trying to transition to something new while also changing employers is super hard. It's all working against me.
    - dclusin 6y ago

bouk 6y ago

Why do you consider tech brutal?

grumple 6y ago
Do we work in the same field? It’s mentally exhausting. You get into it thinking you’re gonna build cool shit, instead you jump through hoops for business school grads as they come up with shitty ideas and try to apply their shitty high pressure motivation tactics on you.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Not just shitty ideas, but half-baked, unexplained, shitty ideas. What I wouldn't give for complete requirements.
- draw_down 6y ago
  Amen
- calvinv 6y ago
  There’s a lot to how you deal with this, I think developers are eager and they either burn out chasing missing requirements or settle into a slower more considered work flow. If you’re at a company where they shout at you for not delivering something they didn’t ask for or asked for yesterday then you’re at the wrong place

mmiinnhhaazz 6y ago

Any advice for getting into real estate? Seems oversaturated to me

poulsbohemian 6y ago
Depends entirely on your location and specifically what you want to do as real estate is a really big space from brokers to house flippers to property managers. I've got a friend who has been in Seattle real estate for decades - he has commented many times about how in flush times people rush in to RE for the money, then run away when the market cycles down. We've seen the same thing in tech - some of us are old enough to remember the Dotcom crash and are a bit bemused at the irrational exuberance of the past 5+ years in tech, as it too will likely have an eventual cycle. Point being - there are a lot of ways to make money in this world - plenty of plumbers and welders with nice houses and cars - so pick something you enjoy, not just something that feels like there's a lot of money flooding that direction.

amerkhalid 6y ago

This is funny, last year, I got my real estate license too. And my reasons were also a bit similar though I don't really want to leave software dev completely. The ideal situation for me would be to work on my own projects, while real estate business pays the bills. For years, I used to write code after work and that started to get very draining. However, I haven't really started real estate business properly, and still have day job. Do you have any advice for software devs to transition to real estate?

poulsbohemian 6y ago
My contact info is in my profile, feel free to reach out as it might be a longer conversation than we can have here. That said - it's like everyone says about startups: focus. You have to be clear about what you want to do with real estate, as it is a really big space. My partner and I have a pretty clear 10+ year picture of what we want to do in our local market. I don't know DFW apart from a couple business trips there in the past, so you'd know better than myself what opportunities exist there. One thing I'll note: people often disregard real estate as a "backup career". It takes a very broad skill set - everything from marketing to finance to construction and design skills, along with a whole lot of psychology, to do it right. The reason I point this out is that unless you are in a market that is just completely flush with opportunities, you really need to be committed to it and not just as a sideline if you want to understand what's happening in your market and how to compete successfully. In my own area I see a lot of part-timers who don't really understand market dynamics and they screw over a lot of their clients as a result and/or make poor investment choices. Just like all the startup advice you've ever received: have a plan and just do it.
- amerkhalid 6y ago
  Thank you, that is a good advice. I will follow up with you later when I am ready to focus, if you don't mind.