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Disclosure: I used to work at one of Priscilla and Mark's charitable organizations, many years ago. I left for a number of reasons, chief among them was the re

Disclosure: I used to work at one of Priscilla and Mark's charitable organizations, many years ago. I left for a number of reasons, chief among them was the realization that Facebook is not run in an ethical manner, and that it has a negative effect on its users. Here in 2020, there should be absolutely nobody who's deluded about how Facebook does business and makes money. So, if you're a scientist or doctor and you're just now speaking up because something something Trump, that means you were fine taking dirty money, as long as it's not dirty in one particular way. I suggest you do what I did: either take Priscilla and Mark's money and keep quiet, or go work somewhere else.

cheerlessbog 6y ago
Facebook pays more than many. Is there an ethical premium it is forced to include?
- haram_masala 6y ago
  That might indeed be the case, though to be clear, I'm referring to Priscilla and Mark's charities, which are operationally independent of Facebook.
DangitBobby 6y ago
Emitting Silence and/or leaving sound like good ways to remove your values from the equation rather than to encourage the change you'd like to see. Is that the intended effect? How does one become an actor for good if one shuts up or quits when affiliated with an org that is misbehaving? In my opinion, leaving in protest is entirely ineffectual without consistent vocalizations of shortcomings and calls for change, which makes it a poor choice for maintaining institutions of importance.
- haram_masala 6y ago
  The mechanism is the same as when people stop buying a crappy product. It's a mostly free market for labor, especially technical and scientific, and one should vote with their feet.
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    This comparison assumes that the issues with the org are known or self evident. In many cases such as crappy products, the reasons will be evident for buyers (though just choosing not to buy doesn't help future buyers from experiencing the same problems as you; that's why voting via reviews is so important). But even in consumer goods, voting with your feet/wallet falls through when the discussion is no longer specifically about a marketed service or product. If you are getting screwed and don't raise a stink about bad customer service, for example, nothing will get done about it, and many people will likely have to re-live your experience unnecessarily. So I disagree that vote with your feet/wallet is a good strategy here.
jmeister 6y ago
This is quite a claim. How is Facebook not run in an ethical manner?
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  Look at all the resistance to avoiding censoring destructive and untrue comments and ads that resonate with people and are very destructive. This happened in multiple countries world wide. If you have a service that can lead to great harm, you need to own up to and try to deal with destruction. This is quite different than 'I don't like conservatives so I want to censor them'. Any web search in google news will find articles like these. It's not a recent problem. Because facebook has so many users it we know in Brazil that the government uses social media like twitter and facebook to spread stories to inflame certain tensions. https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/28/facebook-is-failing-to-prevent-another-human-rights-tragedy-playing-out-on-its-platform-report-warns/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/28/facebook-is-failing-to-pre... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/asia/facebook-sri-lanka-riots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/asia/facebook-sri-l...
- haram_masala 6y ago
  One example of many: manipulating people’s feed as a non-consensual experiment on affecting mood. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/30/controversy-over-facebook-emotional-manipulation-study-grows-as-timeline-becomes-more-clear/#6e0a46809caa https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/30/contro...

cheerlessbog 6y ago

Facebook pays more than many. Is there an ethical premium it is forced to include?

haram_masala 6y ago
That might indeed be the case, though to be clear, I'm referring to Priscilla and Mark's charities, which are operationally independent of Facebook.

DangitBobby 6y ago

Emitting Silence and/or leaving sound like good ways to remove your values from the equation rather than to encourage the change you'd like to see. Is that the intended effect? How does one become an actor for good if one shuts up or quits when affiliated with an org that is misbehaving? In my opinion, leaving in protest is entirely ineffectual without consistent vocalizations of shortcomings and calls for change, which makes it a poor choice for maintaining institutions of importance.

haram_masala 6y ago
The mechanism is the same as when people stop buying a crappy product. It's a mostly free market for labor, especially technical and scientific, and one should vote with their feet.
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  This comparison assumes that the issues with the org are known or self evident. In many cases such as crappy products, the reasons will be evident for buyers (though just choosing not to buy doesn't help future buyers from experiencing the same problems as you; that's why voting via reviews is so important). But even in consumer goods, voting with your feet/wallet falls through when the discussion is no longer specifically about a marketed service or product. If you are getting screwed and don't raise a stink about bad customer service, for example, nothing will get done about it, and many people will likely have to re-live your experience unnecessarily. So I disagree that vote with your feet/wallet is a good strategy here.

jmeister 6y ago

This is quite a claim. How is Facebook not run in an ethical manner?

NotSammyHagar 6y ago
Look at all the resistance to avoiding censoring destructive and untrue comments and ads that resonate with people and are very destructive. This happened in multiple countries world wide. If you have a service that can lead to great harm, you need to own up to and try to deal with destruction. This is quite different than 'I don't like conservatives so I want to censor them'. Any web search in google news will find articles like these. It's not a recent problem. Because facebook has so many users it we know in Brazil that the government uses social media like twitter and facebook to spread stories to inflame certain tensions. https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/28/facebook-is-failing-to-prevent-another-human-rights-tragedy-playing-out-on-its-platform-report-warns/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/28/facebook-is-failing-to-pre... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/asia/facebook-sri-lanka-riots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/21/world/asia/facebook-sri-l...
haram_masala 6y ago
One example of many: manipulating people’s feed as a non-consensual experiment on affecting mood. https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/30/controversy-over-facebook-emotional-manipulation-study-grows-as-timeline-becomes-more-clear/#6e0a46809caa https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/30/contro...