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If Osama bin Laden “hated our freedom” as Bush said, then mission accomplished.
by webwielder2 6y ago
If Osama bin Laden “hated our freedom” as Bush said, then mission accomplished.
- nipponese 6y agoThat one stings hard.
- marvindanig 6y agoAlso, that impeached lunatic and his enablers managed to kill more American civilians than Bin Laden ever could in twenty years.
- pavs 6y agoWhich lunatic? Be more specific, Usa seems to have quite a few of them as president.
- wiredfool 6y agoTo be fair, impeached limits it to two living presidents.
- vuln 6y agoThere’s 3 presidents that have been impeached. Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.
- cameronbrown 6y agoThe last impeachment failed though.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoIt’s been true since the day the TSA security theater / jobs program started. “Land of the free, home of the brave” hasn’t been a thing since I was a kid.
- iso1210 6y agoYup, America's tenure as the country to look up to ended on September 11th 2001 when it caved into the demands of a tiny number of extremists. Land of the oppressed, home of the scared.
- rainbowzootsuit 6y agoIt's particularly depressing considering the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93 had figured out how to _not_ let terrorists win before 10:00 AM the morning of 9/11/2001. It was later that we decided, oh no, let's let the terrorists win by throwing the bill of rights on metaphorical fire.
- leafboi 6y agoWhy are Americans so obsessed with freedom? It's the catalyst for peoples freedom to not wear masks and go to the beach during a pandemic. Freedom has pros and cons. The historical foundations of Freedom in America is an idealistic notion that should be tempered with modern knowledge about the price and complexity of freedom. My friend in China has told me that the crisis has largely been contained in in their country. The irony here being they have less freedoms than we do but they can now go out in public without worrying about transmitting or receiving covid.
- entee 6y agoBecause we believe it is the way to maximize individual happiness and that individuals are inherently valuable. To take an individual’s liberty is to violate something sacred that the person has just by being alive. You have to have a very strong justification, with a high bar. This does come with tradeoffs, but I don’t think the masks and beach are part of that tradeoff. People can and will voluntarily take on inconvenience for the good of others, but they have to be convinced. Our dysfunctional president has actively fought against creating a consensus that we should move as one against this virus. When the US decides to do something together, especially in the modern era, we do it incredibly well mostly without sacrificing human rights (with some obvious historical injustices we have to remedy). What is happening here is a failure of leadership, not a failure of liberty.
- kenned3 6y agoyou mean how Americans post about the chinese internment camps and "human rights violations" while you also had Japanese internment camps during WW2, that sort of thing? Did the US internment camps violate the rights of others?
- p49k 6y agoYour whataboutism aside, the US formally apologized, offered reparations, overturned the court decision with a strong statement decrying the action.
- 6y ago
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoYeah, our freedom to burn down a federal courthouse is being infringed upon. Go live in China or Taliban controlled regions for a year and even try letting those words come out of your mouth again.
- kenned3 6y agocurious, have you ever lived in China or a Taliban controlled region yourself? How do you know what it is like?
- refurb 6y agoI don’t think Bush meant “setting fires to federal buildings” when he was talking about “freedom” here.
- armada651 6y agoArsonists trying to set fire to a government building is not a reason to suspend people's civil liberties. That reasoning sounds eerily close to the Reichstag Fire Decree.
- refurb 6y agoWhat do you mean by “suspend civil liberties”? These people are being detained by people with POLICE written on their vests, charged in front of a magistrate, and released. All the info is on the Portland website of arrests. https://oregon.staterecords.org/multnomah https://oregon.staterecords.org/multnomah What civil liberty has been suspended?
- wbronitsky 6y agoThere are videos where we can clearly see these unmarked agents (yes they are unmarked if they have no name or number) attacking and detaining medics without reading them their rights. Those are the violations of civil liberties we are discussing and this argument throws out.
- refurb 6y agoYou don’t have to be read your rights when arrested, only prior to questioning.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- WiseWeasel 6y agoA prime example of civil liberty being infringed would be the large number of people being assaulted with chemicals, projectiles, intimidation and old fashioned thuggery in reaction to acts carried out by a different, smaller group of people.