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The common miscommunication here is that people perceive the statement as saying "psychedelics are the ONLY way of learning certain things", whereas what they s
by tazjin 6y ago
The common miscommunication here is that people perceive the statement as saying "psychedelics are the ONLY way of learning certain things", whereas what they should perceive is "psychedelics are ONE (very efficient) way of learning certain things".
The thing is that for people whose normal life does not include pursuing knowledge and understanding just for the sake of it (and I think this might be most people), it's unlikely that they'd end up with the right perspective shift through some other circumstance.
- carlmr 6y agoWhat exactly do they learn from it?
- jungturk 6y agoThe central revelation, as I see it, isn't so much about facts or content (e.g. truth, purpose, ultimate meaning) but rather about how flexible the hardware/software package is that underlies our cognition and sense of the world - the experience of your mind behaving in novel ways. I suppose there's nothing terribly transcendent for observers about seeing Doom run on an iPod, but it's definitely surprising to see how the flexible the hardware/software can be. Subjectively, though, it can feel pretty transcendent when its your runtime being hacked in new and different ways. If the iPod had a sense of self like we do then maybe it would be floored seeing itself run Doom (though hopefully it wouldn't confuse Doom for ultimate truth). "The mind is vaster and more fluid than our ordinary, waking consciousness suggests. And it is simply impossible to communicate the profundity (or seeming profundity) of psychedelic states to those who have never experienced them. Indeed, it is even difficult to remind oneself of the power of these states once they have passed." https://samharris.org/podcasts/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life...
- CivBase 6y agoIs there any credible evidence that psychedelics reliably and "efficiently" help people learn things?
- mudita 6y agoThere is for example research showing that psychedelics have a lasting effect on the Big 5 personality trait "openness to experience": https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201604/psychedelic-drugs-and-the-nature-personality-change https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-els... Which is quite remarkable given the stability these personality traits usually have. Overall while it seems to be clear that people who take psychedelics don't become saints spreading love for the rest of their lives, there's some solid evidence accumulated by psychologists that psychedelics have some real effect.
- tazjin 6y agoI don't know what you'd consider "credible evidence". You can find tens of thousands of anecdotal accounts, but you're probably looking for something more formal. It's likely a futile search: Research into these topics is difficult to get approval for, even when it's more "tangible" things like effects on depression or PTSD. In my opinion, we'll probably need another few decades to get there (though there has been some encouraging societal progress in some places recently). We won't get anywhere in this conversation because we're on two different sides of a fence, and I certainly can't describe what being on this side is like and can only invite people to come over here. It'd be like asking you to describe what the colour green looks like to you. Which path around, or over, the fence they choose is up to them ...
- DanBC 6y agoDepends how you define "learn", but there's lots of (actually quite exciting) research into psychadelics to treat mental illness.
- asimpletune 6y agoYes, there's a whole book about this in fact, "How to Change Your Mind"
- naringas 6y agoI think it more accurate to say they make people question things
- mistermann 6y ago