12 ms·

Ozymandias

138 points by _ttg 6y ago

082349872349872 6y ago
Something I appreciate about country music is how it sometimes utilises a chorus that may remain syntactically invariant throughout a song, but hearing the intervening verses changes the semantics. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vn6QdqxK3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vn6QdqxK3g
- JadeNB 6y ago
  I don't mean to be rude, but I want to make sure I understand the relevance of this. Are you referring to the way the inscription on Ozymandias's statue, while remaining the same, has changed its perceived meaning over time?
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Exactly. (Thanks for asking! It's difficult to sustain a conversation here, but I intermittently check comments up to a few days back in case they're in need of expansion.)
    - callahad 6y ago
      You might appreciate http://hnreplies.com/ http://hnreplies.com/, which emails you whenever someone replies to one of your comments.
- mberning 6y ago
  Another great example is “why don’t you stay”. It’s always fun to figure out if there could be a different reading. I often wonder about what has potentially been lost in translation. Edit: it is Sugarland “Stay”
tardismechanic 6y ago
Customary, a reading by Bryan Cranston https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE
- bzb3 6y ago
  >The uploader has not made this video available in your country. This seems to go a little bit against the idea of the internet.
- vmurthy 6y ago
  Seems geo restricted. I had better luck with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o in Oz
- pastrami_panda 6y ago
  Imo this version really conveys the atmosphere with the animations: https://youtu.be/sPlSH6n37ts https://youtu.be/sPlSH6n37ts
ourmandave 6y ago
"I'm not a comic book villain." ~ Ozymandias
- diffrinse 6y ago
  Unlike the movies, The Watchmen graphic novel takes the time to point out Veidt's homage
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
gerdesj 6y ago
When Roman generals were allowed a triumphal march after a decent enough victory, a slave would be placed in the chariot. The slave was mandated to constantly repeat in the ear of the general "You are mortal" or words to that effect. The idea was to remind the general not to get above himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias gives two versions of "Ozymandias" (scroll to halfway to read them.) They are both rather good and should speak loud across the centuries. There are many simmering tensions (and quite a few outright wars) around the world. Some of those simmering tensions, that involve the really big proponents, are starting to look quite close to the boil. Remember Ozymandias and the futility of conceit. Romans getting a slave to murmur stuff is what we might call "value signalling" these days. We are enjoying a relatively peaceful period in human history. It would be nice if that continued. When I say enjoying, I'm obviously not referring to Syria, Yemen and other war zones or zones of continual atrocity.
- klyrs 6y ago
  Kinda reminds me of the time I "bonked" on a bike ride. I realized that I was hypoglycemic, concluded that I wasn't thinking straight... so I started saying to myself "if you do something stupid, pull over"... that turned into a bit of a chant... 5 miles later I realize that chanting to myself is a stupid way to handle the issue... 5 miles later, I actually pulled over, and ate every calorie in my pack. Saying it feels good, doing it is real good.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  > "You are mortal" or words to that effect 'Momento mori'? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#In_classical_antiquity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#In_classical_anti... > The Stoic Epictetus told his students that when kissing their child, brother, or friend, they should remind themselves that they are mortal, curbing their pleasure, as do "those who stand behind men in their triumphs and remind them that they are mortal"
  - tunnuz 6y ago
    Memento, not momento.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
The Ozymandias referred to in this poem is the Greek name of Rameses II. He was arguably the most powerful and successful Pharaoh in all of Egyptian history. He became Pharaoh as a teenager, led an invasion of the Levant against the Hittites, and almost single handedly through great personal bravery turned what would have been a crushing defeat into a stalemate at the Battle of Kadesh. He also extended the Egyptian power south into Sudan. Egypt probably reached the pinnacle of her wealth and power under him. He is thought to have lived into his 90's and reigned 66 years. He fathered roughly 100 children (~50 sons and ~50 daughters). His whole life, he was treated as god on earth. The reason I bring this up is that the person Shelley is referring to is not some obscure person. In our wildest dreams, none of us could ever hope to reach the level of significance of Rameses II. In terms of reaching the pinnacle of success, Rameses did it: famous, powerful, rich, huge family, beloved by everyone around him, long life, etc. Yet he died. His accomplishments decayed. His kingdom eventually fell. His statues fell over and went into decay (though some are around and his temple at Abu Simbel is still amazing). Remember, all our greatest accomplishments and any fame we could hope to accomplish are all ultimately fleeting. In our quest for significance, we should not forget to enjoy the moments we have now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- erikpukinskis 6y ago
  Did the accomplishments decay or are they part of the fabric of reality? Is the 2nd law really the only truth? Could it be locally false for long enough to not matter?
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > Remember, all our greatest accomplishments and any fame we could hope to accomplish are all ultimately fleeting. What's the point of thinking this way? At the end of the day the Sun will destroy the Earth and nobody will ever remember anyone because there will no trace of us all. If you keep looking at things this way, this is rather depressing. If all our ancestors thought that "let's forget about investing in building something better because ultimately it does not matter", we would not even be having computers to write on by now.
simonh 6y ago
I was reading a bit about Voyager 1 a few days ago and the possibility that in hundreds of millions or billions of years it, and I suppose probes like it, might be all that remain of humanity and all our works. It’s a sobering thought. We are incredibly lucky enough to live at a crucial inflection point in the story of our species. I suspect we may not be far from achieving close to the limits of what is technologically possible, within the next few centuries. What will our statues be, and how shall we write our civilisation’s epitaph?
- chance_state 6y ago
  Maybe that's all that's left of us in thousands or even just hundreds of years. We have the tools to destroy civilization in a matter of days.
  - erikpukinskis 6y ago
    Can you describe that? I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Bombs I assume, detonated where?
    - garmaine 6y ago
      Well, a full nuclear exchange between the U.S. and Russia would end civilization as we know it. Though it is unlikely to wipe out the human race entirely, we'd be reduced to paleolithic population levels and it's really hard to predict how things would develop from there. A nuclear exchange between the U.S. and China, or between India and Pakistan on the other hand would cause a decades-long crisis, but wouldn't outright destroy civilization in the way a U.S.-Russia exchange (with 10x-100x more nukes) would. I would personally be more worried about another global pandemic and/or biowarfare/bioterrorism. An infection with the virility of SARS-CoV-2 but the case fatality rate of Ebola or MERS would end civilization. What'll keep you up at night is realizing that this is almost at the point where a biology grad student could engineer such a thing in their dorm room. It should be noted that people who think about these things are also worried about AI existential risk. Personally I think that while there is reason to have some concern, it doesn't hold a candle to the above two risks.
spodek 6y ago
They left out the other version, Horace Smith's "Ozymandias": --- In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone, Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws The only shadow that the Desert knows:— "I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone, "The King of Kings; this mighty City shows The wonders of my hand."— The City's gone,— Naught but the Leg remaining to disclose The site of this forgotten Babylon. We wonder,—and some Hunter may express Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace, He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess What powerful but unrecorded race Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
- Arubis 6y ago
  As I recall, he and Shelly both composed these in a personal competition, which Smith immediately conceded on seeing the other version.
- kybernetikos 6y ago
  I'm a fan of this version. It's got more scifi.
rasfincher 6y ago
And its mate by Horace Smith. http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html
recursivedoubts 6y ago
rosebud
mke 6y ago
In the same spirit, Ulysses By Tennyson https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45392/ulysses https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45392/ulysses
- riffraff 6y ago
  We studied this poem in high school after having studied the Odyssey (where Ulysses gets home) and the Divine Comedy (where Ulysses tells the story after he travels past Hercules' columns). So this poem filled the middle (staying in Ithaca until leaving) missing part! In addition to being a fantastic poem in itself, it felt great to see how a whole story could develop through different authors over so many centuries.
pdkl95 6y ago
exurb1a's variation, from his amazing video[1] "We're the Last Humans Left": My name is Homo sapiens, hominid of hominids; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbTFwXagdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbTFwXagdQ
- garren 6y ago
  I hadn’t heard of this video before, you’re right, it is amazing. It’s interesting, a little dark, yet some how comforting in a way I’m not sure I can articulate. If Voyager has a follow up, this is a message that should be on it. Thank you so much for sharing.
intrepidhero 6y ago
I've always liked the sense of perspective conveyed in this poem. I was introduced to it through the truly excellent https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2/ https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2/. EDIT: spelling
kartman 6y ago
There may be a slightly different interpretation too. Ozymandias still has this traveler writing a poem about him and through it, us/audience, talking about him. Which (rightly or wrongly), is what Ozymandias wanted in the first place.
oneplane 6y ago
I wonder (with my limited knowledge on the exact nature of the language) why we still print 'ye' if the 'y' was a shorthand for 'th' and therefore it actually is pronounced 'the'. If we modify or modernise the other words in the poem, why keep 'the' spelled using 'ye'? As far as I can tell it only causes people the speak (or mentally read) the equivalent of 'yee'.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tlholaday 6y ago
  In this instance, “ye” is the plural form of “thou.”
  - oneplane 6y ago
    And (if I read the other responses correctly) thou is similar to 'you' in pronoun terms, right?
- rgossiaux 6y ago
  You're confusing two different things. Ye as a plural pronoun is a bone fide archaic English word, ultimately sharing an etymology with the still-extant "you". "Ye" as an article ("Ye olde...") has the history you reference, where the y comes from a stand-in for a thorn (th), and so was not supposed to be pronounced as "yee". But ye as a pronoun (by far the most common usage, I think, and the usage in the poem) is just a normal word and doesn't share that history.
  - oneplane 6y ago
    Ah yes, the thorn was the one I was looking for. I remember reading something about that when looking up the reason old pub signs in England sometimes had the thorn and often 'ye' but are always actually supposed to be 'the' in technically correct form.
- war1025 6y ago
  Because even though the 'y' was originally a substitute for the thorn rune, it then passed into common language with the 'yee' pronunciation. Given that this poem was written in the 1800s, I would guess it's meant to be pronounced with the 'y' sound and not a 'th' sound.
svat 6y ago
“On the Vanity of Earthly Greatness” (1930) by Arthur Guiterman: The tusks which clashed in mighty brawls Of mastodons, are billiard balls. The sword of Charlemagne the Just Is Ferric Oxide, known as rust. The grizzly bear, whose potent hug, Was feared by all, is now a rug. Great Caesar's bust is on the shelf, And I don't feel so well myself.
- pastrami_panda 6y ago
  Thank you so much, I've memorized a few poems (Ozymandias being the first one) and this one will surely be added to that list. I really like this kind of theme, if you know more please share.
  - GreeniFi 6y ago
    Along these lines: Even This Shall Pass Away by Theodore Tilton Once in Persia reigned a king, Who upon his signet ring Graved a maxim true and wise, Which, if held before his eyes, Gave him counsel at a glance Fit for every change and chance. Solemn words, and these are they; “Even this shall pass away.” Trains of camels through the sand Brought him gems from Samarcand; Fleets of galleys through the seas Brought him pearls to match with these; But he counted not his gain Treasures of the mine or main; “What is wealth?” the king would say; “Even this shall pass away.” ‘Mid the revels of his court, At the zenith of his sport, When the palms of all his guests Burned with clapping at his jests, He, amid his figs and wine, Cried, “O loving friends of mine; Pleasures come, but do not stay; ‘Even this shall pass away.’” Lady, fairest ever seen, Was the bride he crowned the queen. Pillowed on his marriage bed, Softly to his soul he said: “Though no bridegroom ever pressed Fairer bossom to his breast, Mortal flesh must come to clay – Even this shall pass away.” Fighting on a furious field, Once a javelin pierced his shield; Soldiers, with a loud lament, Bore him bleeding to his tent. Groaning from his tortured side, “Pain is hard to bear,” he cried; “But with patience, day by day, Even this shall pass away.” Towering in the public square, Twenty cubits in the air, Rose his statue, carved in stone. Then the king, disguised, unknown, Stood before his sculptured name, Musing meekly: “What is fame? Fame is but a slow decay; Even this shall pass away.” Struck with palsy, sore and old, Waiting at the Gates of Gold, Said he with his dying breath, “Life is done, but what is Death?” Then, in answer to the king, Fell a sunbeam on his ring, Showing by a heavenly ray, “Even this shall pass away.” –Theodore Tilton _and_ The ivory gods, And the ebony gods, And the gods of diamond and jade, Sit silently on their temple shelves While the people Are afraid. Yet the ivory gods, And the ebony gods, And the gods of diamond-jade, Are only silly puppet gods That the people themselves Have made.
jsgo 6y ago
The trailer for the final season of Breaking Bad had Walter White (Bryan Cranston) reciting one of the versions to great effect and quite well sums up the big series storyline: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE
- vmurthy 6y ago
  The URL ^^ didn't work for me . This one -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o worked for me in Australia
  - jsgo 6y ago
    That’s unfortunate, region locking? The trailer was basically sequences from the desert (which is also where the series starts. Very, very well done show) while he talks. I almost wonder if Gilligan started off with that poem and constructed a loose version of the story which grew into the layered thing that it is. I remember wanting to be very disinterested in it due to the meth subject matter, but geez, the sub plots, the symbolism, all of it was just exceptionally well done.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  I was hoping someone would mention Breaking Bad. The third-to-last episode of the last season is called "Ozymandias" and it's probably the second-greatest episode of television ever filmed. The greatest is the very last episode "Felina." You have to watch the whole series linearly though; if you skip to those episodes they won't mean anything.
0d9eooo 6y ago
This poem often reminds me of geological timescale, which occurs over millions of years or more. For example, the Carnian Pluvial Event was a relatively humid rainy era that lasted for millions of years, beyond most of our comprehension in practical terms (https://laughingsquid.com/why-it-rained-for-two-million-years/ https://laughingsquid.com/why-it-rained-for-two-million-year...), even though it's a relatively discrete period of time in the grand scheme of Earth. Even the Permian extinction, the largest extinction event in the history of known life, unfolded for over 60000 years. That is a flicker on geological timescales, but supercedes by a wide margin the period of recorded human history.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
”For agony and spoil Of nations beat to dust, For poisoned air and tortured soil And cold, commanded lust, And every secret woe The shuddering waters saw— Willed and fulfilled by highh and low— Let them relearn the Law” Exerpt from Justice, RUDYARD KIPLING 1918 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57432/justice-56d23af4adb83 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57432/justice-56d23af...
OliverLamb 6y ago
https://payforessay.net/ https://payforessay.net/ You are probably tired of hearing this kind of advice. But it is very important to start writing work with specific ideas. This requires an outline of the essay. It doesn't take much time, you just need to open a new Word document and write down the ideas that you want to discuss in order.
bori5 6y ago
This makes a great appearance in one of the short stories in the movie the Ballad of Buster Scruggs. A brilliant Coen brothers movie on Netflix.
- undershirt 6y ago
  Harry Melling forever sealed the way that I read it.
toohotatopic 6y ago
>[1]The name "Ozymandias" is a rendering in Greek of a part of Ramesses II's throne name, User-maat-re Setep-en-re. The poems paraphrase the inscription on the base of the statue, given by Diodorus Siculus in his Bibliotheca historica as: >>King of Kings am I, Osymandyas. If anyone would know how great I am and where I lie, let him surpass one of my works. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias#Hubris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias#Hubris Have we checked the quote? There seems to be just the upper half in the museum but the other half should be lying somewhere.
occamschainsaw 6y ago
I love this comic strip illustration of the poem: https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/ozymandias/ https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/ozymandias/ Also, looking at an aging Ozymandias, played by Jeremy Irons, in the new Watchmen show made me think of the poem again.
koz_ 6y ago
This is my favourite poem and was before I even knew how layered and knotty it is. In addition to its obvious interpretation it's also about readers and reading, how even if you are the mightiest ruler who has ever lived you still can't make people read you a certain way - the sculptor who "mocked" his features may have found the king's intentions absurd even as he was forced to sculpt his likeness. It was an illustration by Shelley of the problems of a certain school of literary thought at the time which held that the author of a text is the ultimate arbiter of its meaning. That Shelley was able to make such an elegant counter-argument and encode it as one of the most lyrically and thematically beautiful poems of all time puts me in awe every time I think of it.
- celebril 6y ago
  That's... really anachronistic. The Death of the Author came about in 1967, even New Criticism, which foreshadowed Death, came about only at the earliest the 1930s-40s, after IA Richards published his Practical Criticism. Shelley wrote in the Romantic period, when the artist's personal "genius" was paramount as a conduit to the "sublime". Saying that he somehow whipped up a criticism of "author as the arbiter of meaning" in what is practically a product of a friendly poetry contest is plainly absurd. Strangely you also attributed this anachronistic reading to Shelley, making it somehow the author's intent to be counter-author-intent. Just... why?
  - koz_ 6y ago
    Ah I see, thanks for setting me straight. I must have conflated someone's later reading of the poem with the author's original intent.
icegore 6y ago
I, who stand half sunk and wrinkled, Tell which yet survive[s] the hand. And on the pedestal my name is. Look on my works. Nothing of that Colossal wreck, the lone. https://jastrub.blogspot.com/2014/01/ozymandias.html https://jastrub.blogspot.com/2014/01/ozymandias.html
darkerside 6y ago
My favorite poem to pair this with is The New Colossus by Lazarus. I have to imagine Lazarus was calling back not just to the ancient Colossus of Rhodes, but also the lyrical colossus that is Ozymandias, towering over the sonnet form. Oh, and I don't want to spoil the ending for those who may not know, but it has some significance besides its poetic beauty. https://poets.org/poem/new-colossus https://poets.org/poem/new-colossus
thwave 6y ago
my nam is King of ancient land and haf my face is under sand and on a stone it can be read “the World is mine” but now I’m ded https://alexicon-art.tumblr.com/post/159203577946/ozymandias https://alexicon-art.tumblr.com/post/159203577946/ozymandias

138 points by _ttg 6y ago

Something I appreciate about country music is how it sometimes utilises a chorus that may remain syntactically invariant throughout a song, but hearing the intervening verses changes the semantics. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vn6QdqxK3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vn6QdqxK3g

JadeNB 6y ago
I don't mean to be rude, but I want to make sure I understand the relevance of this. Are you referring to the way the inscription on Ozymandias's statue, while remaining the same, has changed its perceived meaning over time?
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Exactly. (Thanks for asking! It's difficult to sustain a conversation here, but I intermittently check comments up to a few days back in case they're in need of expansion.)
  - callahad 6y ago
    You might appreciate http://hnreplies.com/ http://hnreplies.com/, which emails you whenever someone replies to one of your comments.
mberning 6y ago
Another great example is “why don’t you stay”. It’s always fun to figure out if there could be a different reading. I often wonder about what has potentially been lost in translation. Edit: it is Sugarland “Stay”

tardismechanic 6y ago

Customary, a reading by Bryan Cranston https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE

bzb3 6y ago
>The uploader has not made this video available in your country. This seems to go a little bit against the idea of the internet.
vmurthy 6y ago
Seems geo restricted. I had better luck with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o in Oz
pastrami_panda 6y ago
Imo this version really conveys the atmosphere with the animations: https://youtu.be/sPlSH6n37ts https://youtu.be/sPlSH6n37ts

ourmandave 6y ago

"I'm not a comic book villain." ~ Ozymandias

diffrinse 6y ago
Unlike the movies, The Watchmen graphic novel takes the time to point out Veidt's homage
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

gerdesj 6y ago

When Roman generals were allowed a triumphal march after a decent enough victory, a slave would be placed in the chariot. The slave was mandated to constantly repeat in the ear of the general "You are mortal" or words to that effect. The idea was to remind the general not to get above himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias gives two versions of "Ozymandias" (scroll to halfway to read them.) They are both rather good and should speak loud across the centuries. There are many simmering tensions (and quite a few outright wars) around the world. Some of those simmering tensions, that involve the really big proponents, are starting to look quite close to the boil. Remember Ozymandias and the futility of conceit. Romans getting a slave to murmur stuff is what we might call "value signalling" these days. We are enjoying a relatively peaceful period in human history. It would be nice if that continued. When I say enjoying, I'm obviously not referring to Syria, Yemen and other war zones or zones of continual atrocity.

klyrs 6y ago
Kinda reminds me of the time I "bonked" on a bike ride. I realized that I was hypoglycemic, concluded that I wasn't thinking straight... so I started saying to myself "if you do something stupid, pull over"... that turned into a bit of a chant... 5 miles later I realize that chanting to myself is a stupid way to handle the issue... 5 miles later, I actually pulled over, and ate every calorie in my pack. Saying it feels good, doing it is real good.
h0l0cube 6y ago
> "You are mortal" or words to that effect 'Momento mori'? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#In_classical_antiquity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#In_classical_anti... > The Stoic Epictetus told his students that when kissing their child, brother, or friend, they should remind themselves that they are mortal, curbing their pleasure, as do "those who stand behind men in their triumphs and remind them that they are mortal"
- tunnuz 6y ago
  Memento, not momento.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

The Ozymandias referred to in this poem is the Greek name of Rameses II. He was arguably the most powerful and successful Pharaoh in all of Egyptian history. He became Pharaoh as a teenager, led an invasion of the Levant against the Hittites, and almost single handedly through great personal bravery turned what would have been a crushing defeat into a stalemate at the Battle of Kadesh. He also extended the Egyptian power south into Sudan. Egypt probably reached the pinnacle of her wealth and power under him. He is thought to have lived into his 90's and reigned 66 years. He fathered roughly 100 children (~50 sons and ~50 daughters). His whole life, he was treated as god on earth. The reason I bring this up is that the person Shelley is referring to is not some obscure person. In our wildest dreams, none of us could ever hope to reach the level of significance of Rameses II. In terms of reaching the pinnacle of success, Rameses did it: famous, powerful, rich, huge family, beloved by everyone around him, long life, etc. Yet he died. His accomplishments decayed. His kingdom eventually fell. His statues fell over and went into decay (though some are around and his temple at Abu Simbel is still amazing). Remember, all our greatest accomplishments and any fame we could hope to accomplish are all ultimately fleeting. In our quest for significance, we should not forget to enjoy the moments we have now.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 6y ago
Did the accomplishments decay or are they part of the fabric of reality? Is the 2nd law really the only truth? Could it be locally false for long enough to not matter?
ekianjo 6y ago
> Remember, all our greatest accomplishments and any fame we could hope to accomplish are all ultimately fleeting. What's the point of thinking this way? At the end of the day the Sun will destroy the Earth and nobody will ever remember anyone because there will no trace of us all. If you keep looking at things this way, this is rather depressing. If all our ancestors thought that "let's forget about investing in building something better because ultimately it does not matter", we would not even be having computers to write on by now.

simonh 6y ago

I was reading a bit about Voyager 1 a few days ago and the possibility that in hundreds of millions or billions of years it, and I suppose probes like it, might be all that remain of humanity and all our works. It’s a sobering thought. We are incredibly lucky enough to live at a crucial inflection point in the story of our species. I suspect we may not be far from achieving close to the limits of what is technologically possible, within the next few centuries. What will our statues be, and how shall we write our civilisation’s epitaph?

chance_state 6y ago
Maybe that's all that's left of us in thousands or even just hundreds of years. We have the tools to destroy civilization in a matter of days.
- erikpukinskis 6y ago
  Can you describe that? I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Bombs I assume, detonated where?
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Well, a full nuclear exchange between the U.S. and Russia would end civilization as we know it. Though it is unlikely to wipe out the human race entirely, we'd be reduced to paleolithic population levels and it's really hard to predict how things would develop from there. A nuclear exchange between the U.S. and China, or between India and Pakistan on the other hand would cause a decades-long crisis, but wouldn't outright destroy civilization in the way a U.S.-Russia exchange (with 10x-100x more nukes) would. I would personally be more worried about another global pandemic and/or biowarfare/bioterrorism. An infection with the virility of SARS-CoV-2 but the case fatality rate of Ebola or MERS would end civilization. What'll keep you up at night is realizing that this is almost at the point where a biology grad student could engineer such a thing in their dorm room. It should be noted that people who think about these things are also worried about AI existential risk. Personally I think that while there is reason to have some concern, it doesn't hold a candle to the above two risks.

spodek 6y ago

They left out the other version, Horace Smith's "Ozymandias": --- In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone, Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws The only shadow that the Desert knows:— "I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone, "The King of Kings; this mighty City shows The wonders of my hand."— The City's gone,— Naught but the Leg remaining to disclose The site of this forgotten Babylon. We wonder,—and some Hunter may express Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace, He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess What powerful but unrecorded race Once dwelt in that annihilated place.

Arubis 6y ago
As I recall, he and Shelly both composed these in a personal competition, which Smith immediately conceded on seeing the other version.
kybernetikos 6y ago
I'm a fan of this version. It's got more scifi.

rasfincher 6y ago

And its mate by Horace Smith. http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html http://www.potw.org/archive/potw192.html

recursivedoubts 6y ago

rosebud

mke 6y ago

In the same spirit, Ulysses By Tennyson https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45392/ulysses https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45392/ulysses

riffraff 6y ago
We studied this poem in high school after having studied the Odyssey (where Ulysses gets home) and the Divine Comedy (where Ulysses tells the story after he travels past Hercules' columns). So this poem filled the middle (staying in Ithaca until leaving) missing part! In addition to being a fantastic poem in itself, it felt great to see how a whole story could develop through different authors over so many centuries.

pdkl95 6y ago

exurb1a's variation, from his amazing video[1] "We're the Last Humans Left": My name is Homo sapiens, hominid of hominids; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbTFwXagdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbTFwXagdQ

garren 6y ago
I hadn’t heard of this video before, you’re right, it is amazing. It’s interesting, a little dark, yet some how comforting in a way I’m not sure I can articulate. If Voyager has a follow up, this is a message that should be on it. Thank you so much for sharing.

intrepidhero 6y ago

I've always liked the sense of perspective conveyed in this poem. I was introduced to it through the truly excellent https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2/ https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2/. EDIT: spelling

kartman 6y ago

There may be a slightly different interpretation too. Ozymandias still has this traveler writing a poem about him and through it, us/audience, talking about him. Which (rightly or wrongly), is what Ozymandias wanted in the first place.

oneplane 6y ago

I wonder (with my limited knowledge on the exact nature of the language) why we still print 'ye' if the 'y' was a shorthand for 'th' and therefore it actually is pronounced 'the'. If we modify or modernise the other words in the poem, why keep 'the' spelled using 'ye'? As far as I can tell it only causes people the speak (or mentally read) the equivalent of 'yee'.

deleted 6y ago
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tlholaday 6y ago
In this instance, “ye” is the plural form of “thou.”
- oneplane 6y ago
  And (if I read the other responses correctly) thou is similar to 'you' in pronoun terms, right?
rgossiaux 6y ago
You're confusing two different things. Ye as a plural pronoun is a bone fide archaic English word, ultimately sharing an etymology with the still-extant "you". "Ye" as an article ("Ye olde...") has the history you reference, where the y comes from a stand-in for a thorn (th), and so was not supposed to be pronounced as "yee". But ye as a pronoun (by far the most common usage, I think, and the usage in the poem) is just a normal word and doesn't share that history.
- oneplane 6y ago
  Ah yes, the thorn was the one I was looking for. I remember reading something about that when looking up the reason old pub signs in England sometimes had the thorn and often 'ye' but are always actually supposed to be 'the' in technically correct form.
war1025 6y ago
Because even though the 'y' was originally a substitute for the thorn rune, it then passed into common language with the 'yee' pronunciation. Given that this poem was written in the 1800s, I would guess it's meant to be pronounced with the 'y' sound and not a 'th' sound.

svat 6y ago

“On the Vanity of Earthly Greatness” (1930) by Arthur Guiterman: The tusks which clashed in mighty brawls Of mastodons, are billiard balls. The sword of Charlemagne the Just Is Ferric Oxide, known as rust. The grizzly bear, whose potent hug, Was feared by all, is now a rug. Great Caesar's bust is on the shelf, And I don't feel so well myself.

pastrami_panda 6y ago
Thank you so much, I've memorized a few poems (Ozymandias being the first one) and this one will surely be added to that list. I really like this kind of theme, if you know more please share.
- GreeniFi 6y ago
  Along these lines: Even This Shall Pass Away by Theodore Tilton Once in Persia reigned a king, Who upon his signet ring Graved a maxim true and wise, Which, if held before his eyes, Gave him counsel at a glance Fit for every change and chance. Solemn words, and these are they; “Even this shall pass away.” Trains of camels through the sand Brought him gems from Samarcand; Fleets of galleys through the seas Brought him pearls to match with these; But he counted not his gain Treasures of the mine or main; “What is wealth?” the king would say; “Even this shall pass away.” ‘Mid the revels of his court, At the zenith of his sport, When the palms of all his guests Burned with clapping at his jests, He, amid his figs and wine, Cried, “O loving friends of mine; Pleasures come, but do not stay; ‘Even this shall pass away.’” Lady, fairest ever seen, Was the bride he crowned the queen. Pillowed on his marriage bed, Softly to his soul he said: “Though no bridegroom ever pressed Fairer bossom to his breast, Mortal flesh must come to clay – Even this shall pass away.” Fighting on a furious field, Once a javelin pierced his shield; Soldiers, with a loud lament, Bore him bleeding to his tent. Groaning from his tortured side, “Pain is hard to bear,” he cried; “But with patience, day by day, Even this shall pass away.” Towering in the public square, Twenty cubits in the air, Rose his statue, carved in stone. Then the king, disguised, unknown, Stood before his sculptured name, Musing meekly: “What is fame? Fame is but a slow decay; Even this shall pass away.” Struck with palsy, sore and old, Waiting at the Gates of Gold, Said he with his dying breath, “Life is done, but what is Death?” Then, in answer to the king, Fell a sunbeam on his ring, Showing by a heavenly ray, “Even this shall pass away.” –Theodore Tilton _and_ The ivory gods, And the ebony gods, And the gods of diamond and jade, Sit silently on their temple shelves While the people Are afraid. Yet the ivory gods, And the ebony gods, And the gods of diamond-jade, Are only silly puppet gods That the people themselves Have made.

jsgo 6y ago

The trailer for the final season of Breaking Bad had Walter White (Bryan Cranston) reciting one of the versions to great effect and quite well sums up the big series storyline: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE

vmurthy 6y ago
The URL ^^ didn't work for me . This one -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMySF1nkN8o worked for me in Australia
- jsgo 6y ago
  That’s unfortunate, region locking? The trailer was basically sequences from the desert (which is also where the series starts. Very, very well done show) while he talks. I almost wonder if Gilligan started off with that poem and constructed a loose version of the story which grew into the layered thing that it is. I remember wanting to be very disinterested in it due to the meth subject matter, but geez, the sub plots, the symbolism, all of it was just exceptionally well done.
dreamcompiler 6y ago
I was hoping someone would mention Breaking Bad. The third-to-last episode of the last season is called "Ozymandias" and it's probably the second-greatest episode of television ever filmed. The greatest is the very last episode "Felina." You have to watch the whole series linearly though; if you skip to those episodes they won't mean anything.

0d9eooo 6y ago

This poem often reminds me of geological timescale, which occurs over millions of years or more. For example, the Carnian Pluvial Event was a relatively humid rainy era that lasted for millions of years, beyond most of our comprehension in practical terms (https://laughingsquid.com/why-it-rained-for-two-million-years/ https://laughingsquid.com/why-it-rained-for-two-million-year...), even though it's a relatively discrete period of time in the grand scheme of Earth. Even the Permian extinction, the largest extinction event in the history of known life, unfolded for over 60000 years. That is a flicker on geological timescales, but supercedes by a wide margin the period of recorded human history.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

”For agony and spoil Of nations beat to dust, For poisoned air and tortured soil And cold, commanded lust, And every secret woe The shuddering waters saw— Willed and fulfilled by highh and low— Let them relearn the Law” Exerpt from Justice, RUDYARD KIPLING 1918 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57432/justice-56d23af4adb83 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57432/justice-56d23af...

OliverLamb 6y ago

https://payforessay.net/ https://payforessay.net/ You are probably tired of hearing this kind of advice. But it is very important to start writing work with specific ideas. This requires an outline of the essay. It doesn't take much time, you just need to open a new Word document and write down the ideas that you want to discuss in order.

bori5 6y ago

This makes a great appearance in one of the short stories in the movie the Ballad of Buster Scruggs. A brilliant Coen brothers movie on Netflix.

undershirt 6y ago
Harry Melling forever sealed the way that I read it.

toohotatopic 6y ago

>[1]The name "Ozymandias" is a rendering in Greek of a part of Ramesses II's throne name, User-maat-re Setep-en-re. The poems paraphrase the inscription on the base of the statue, given by Diodorus Siculus in his Bibliotheca historica as: >>King of Kings am I, Osymandyas. If anyone would know how great I am and where I lie, let him surpass one of my works. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias#Hubris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias#Hubris Have we checked the quote? There seems to be just the upper half in the museum but the other half should be lying somewhere.

occamschainsaw 6y ago

I love this comic strip illustration of the poem: https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/ozymandias/ https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/ozymandias/ Also, looking at an aging Ozymandias, played by Jeremy Irons, in the new Watchmen show made me think of the poem again.

koz_ 6y ago

This is my favourite poem and was before I even knew how layered and knotty it is. In addition to its obvious interpretation it's also about readers and reading, how even if you are the mightiest ruler who has ever lived you still can't make people read you a certain way - the sculptor who "mocked" his features may have found the king's intentions absurd even as he was forced to sculpt his likeness. It was an illustration by Shelley of the problems of a certain school of literary thought at the time which held that the author of a text is the ultimate arbiter of its meaning. That Shelley was able to make such an elegant counter-argument and encode it as one of the most lyrically and thematically beautiful poems of all time puts me in awe every time I think of it.

celebril 6y ago
That's... really anachronistic. The Death of the Author came about in 1967, even New Criticism, which foreshadowed Death, came about only at the earliest the 1930s-40s, after IA Richards published his Practical Criticism. Shelley wrote in the Romantic period, when the artist's personal "genius" was paramount as a conduit to the "sublime". Saying that he somehow whipped up a criticism of "author as the arbiter of meaning" in what is practically a product of a friendly poetry contest is plainly absurd. Strangely you also attributed this anachronistic reading to Shelley, making it somehow the author's intent to be counter-author-intent. Just... why?
- koz_ 6y ago
  Ah I see, thanks for setting me straight. I must have conflated someone's later reading of the poem with the author's original intent.

icegore 6y ago

I, who stand half sunk and wrinkled, Tell which yet survive[s] the hand. And on the pedestal my name is. Look on my works. Nothing of that Colossal wreck, the lone. https://jastrub.blogspot.com/2014/01/ozymandias.html https://jastrub.blogspot.com/2014/01/ozymandias.html

darkerside 6y ago

My favorite poem to pair this with is The New Colossus by Lazarus. I have to imagine Lazarus was calling back not just to the ancient Colossus of Rhodes, but also the lyrical colossus that is Ozymandias, towering over the sonnet form. Oh, and I don't want to spoil the ending for those who may not know, but it has some significance besides its poetic beauty. https://poets.org/poem/new-colossus https://poets.org/poem/new-colossus

thwave 6y ago

my nam is King of ancient land and haf my face is under sand and on a stone it can be read “the World is mine” but now I’m ded https://alexicon-art.tumblr.com/post/159203577946/ozymandias https://alexicon-art.tumblr.com/post/159203577946/ozymandias