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While what I'll say will surely be controversial and will lead to many down votes, Indian dialect of English is not considered a "standard." As a result, the co

While what I'll say will surely be controversial and will lead to many down votes, Indian dialect of English is not considered a "standard." As a result, the correctness of something in Indian dialect does not mean it is "proper English" or "correct English". If you go to non-English speaking Europe, most textbooks come from the British Council, and teach British English. If you go to China and a lot of Asian countries, a lot of their textbooks come from the USA, and will teach American English. You might find some Aussie textbooks in Japan or China... You will not find a country that speaks Indian English outside of India. So, "color" or "colour" are both correct because they are correct in one of the "standards" of English. "Codes" then is not correct because it is incorrect in what's considered the "standards" of English. For the record, I personally am from neither US, UK, or any other English-speaking country. I also think correcting people's English on HNews is silly. Just my 2c.

klodolph 6y ago
Textbooks for French teach Parisian French, the kind standardized by the Académie française. Does this mean that Québécois is wrong? Does this mean that when the Swiss say “septante” we should correct them and say “Ce n’est pas septante, c’est soixante-dix.” The fact that we teach French according to the Académie française and teach Spanish according to the Real Academia Española is just due to the political power of those institutions, as any linguist will tell you. These divisions, that American English and British English are “standard” and other versions of English are “non-standard” are based in colonial sensibilities and steeped in racism—the same reasons why AAVE is seen as inferior, or Haitian Creole.
ivalm 6y ago
Except there are over a billion Indians, which is more than all of Europe+US combined. They are a standard onto themselves. There are more Indian English speakers than British English speakers.
jkaplowitz 6y ago
I see nothing wrong or nonstandard with Indian English, as a native US English speaker living in Canada myself. Are you going to claim that Canada uses nonstandard English simply because it's a hybrid of US and UK English with a few phonetic and lexical twists of its own? Or that Scottish English is somehow less legitimate than England's English (the two are quite different) despite Scotland being part of the UK for centuries? As well, Indian English is spoken by an estimated 125 million people, more people than the total populations of the UK and Canada combined and about a third of the US population. And this is the predominant version of English in a country of more than a billion people, which makes it standard enough there to count as a standard. Deferring to a standard requires a context in which to say whether one is or isn't speaking standardly. Since we're discussing a topic about India on a US-centric but globally inclusive website, either we should insist that everyone uses the site's predominant US variety of English (I'm happy we don't do this) or the Indian commenter should be free to use standard Indian English in discussing this without that dialect being called wrong.
- BossingAround 6y ago
  > I see nothing wrong or nonstandard with Indian English, as a native US English speaker living in Canada myself. I try to see it from the perspective of a non-native speaker trying to learn English. If I know no English, and pay for teachers to teach me English, I definitely do not want to be taught Indian English. Not because it's wrong, not because it's $whatever_adjective, but because it will sound incorrect to the majority of native English speakers that are not of Indian origin. In a similar manner, you don't see Cockney English being taught, and you don't think of as Cockney English as "correct". It has indeed its rules, and is perfectly understandable to the speakers. I have nothing against Cockney English. That said, I wouldn't want to be taught Cockney English by professionals who claim "it is correct." It is indeed correct, but it will hurt my communication even in the most of the UK.
  - klodolph 6y ago
    There’s a difference between “This is the version of English that I want to learn because it is well-respected,” and “I am going to tell you that you are wrong because your version of English is not well-respected.”
  - gourabmi 6y ago
    I want to point out your claim about 'majority of English speakers'. The number of English speakers in the Indian subcontinent is much higher than anywhere else in the world, including US. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... If numbers decide what is the norm, Indian English should be it. However, I feel like there are other factors that you are using to determine the "correct" English.
    - BossingAround 6y ago
      > majority of English speakers That's fair... That should have been "majority of native English speakers". Corrected. You'll now argue who's a native speaker, won't you... :)
izolate 6y ago
Indian English is also spoken in surrounding countries (Nepal, Sri Lanka). Anyway, what does the international exportation of a dialect have to do with legitimacy? Linguistically speaking, if enough people speak a dialect, then it's legitimate. And there are more fluent Indian English speakers than there are British English ones.
gourabmi 6y ago
If you scroll through the speech and language settings on your phone, you'll find 'English (India)`. Perhaps give it a shot :)
sohex 6y ago
Linguistic prescriptivism is just class oppression by another name. As long as language can be understood it can't be wrong. Intelligibility is what matters, not if someone subscribes to the particulars of a given style guide. Saying otherwise just serves to suppress the voices of people who speak other dialects.
sumedh 6y ago
> Indian dialect of English is not considered a "standard." Says who? If more than 200 million people follow it then it becomes a standard whether you like it or not.

klodolph 6y ago

Textbooks for French teach Parisian French, the kind standardized by the Académie française. Does this mean that Québécois is wrong? Does this mean that when the Swiss say “septante” we should correct them and say “Ce n’est pas septante, c’est soixante-dix.” The fact that we teach French according to the Académie française and teach Spanish according to the Real Academia Española is just due to the political power of those institutions, as any linguist will tell you. These divisions, that American English and British English are “standard” and other versions of English are “non-standard” are based in colonial sensibilities and steeped in racism—the same reasons why AAVE is seen as inferior, or Haitian Creole.

ivalm 6y ago

Except there are over a billion Indians, which is more than all of Europe+US combined. They are a standard onto themselves. There are more Indian English speakers than British English speakers.

jkaplowitz 6y ago

I see nothing wrong or nonstandard with Indian English, as a native US English speaker living in Canada myself. Are you going to claim that Canada uses nonstandard English simply because it's a hybrid of US and UK English with a few phonetic and lexical twists of its own? Or that Scottish English is somehow less legitimate than England's English (the two are quite different) despite Scotland being part of the UK for centuries? As well, Indian English is spoken by an estimated 125 million people, more people than the total populations of the UK and Canada combined and about a third of the US population. And this is the predominant version of English in a country of more than a billion people, which makes it standard enough there to count as a standard. Deferring to a standard requires a context in which to say whether one is or isn't speaking standardly. Since we're discussing a topic about India on a US-centric but globally inclusive website, either we should insist that everyone uses the site's predominant US variety of English (I'm happy we don't do this) or the Indian commenter should be free to use standard Indian English in discussing this without that dialect being called wrong.

BossingAround 6y ago
> I see nothing wrong or nonstandard with Indian English, as a native US English speaker living in Canada myself. I try to see it from the perspective of a non-native speaker trying to learn English. If I know no English, and pay for teachers to teach me English, I definitely do not want to be taught Indian English. Not because it's wrong, not because it's $whatever_adjective, but because it will sound incorrect to the majority of native English speakers that are not of Indian origin. In a similar manner, you don't see Cockney English being taught, and you don't think of as Cockney English as "correct". It has indeed its rules, and is perfectly understandable to the speakers. I have nothing against Cockney English. That said, I wouldn't want to be taught Cockney English by professionals who claim "it is correct." It is indeed correct, but it will hurt my communication even in the most of the UK.
- klodolph 6y ago
  There’s a difference between “This is the version of English that I want to learn because it is well-respected,” and “I am going to tell you that you are wrong because your version of English is not well-respected.”
- gourabmi 6y ago
  I want to point out your claim about 'majority of English speakers'. The number of English speakers in the Indian subcontinent is much higher than anywhere else in the world, including US. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... If numbers decide what is the norm, Indian English should be it. However, I feel like there are other factors that you are using to determine the "correct" English.
  - BossingAround 6y ago
    > majority of English speakers That's fair... That should have been "majority of native English speakers". Corrected. You'll now argue who's a native speaker, won't you... :)

izolate 6y ago

Indian English is also spoken in surrounding countries (Nepal, Sri Lanka). Anyway, what does the international exportation of a dialect have to do with legitimacy? Linguistically speaking, if enough people speak a dialect, then it's legitimate. And there are more fluent Indian English speakers than there are British English ones.

gourabmi 6y ago

If you scroll through the speech and language settings on your phone, you'll find 'English (India)`. Perhaps give it a shot :)

sohex 6y ago

Linguistic prescriptivism is just class oppression by another name. As long as language can be understood it can't be wrong. Intelligibility is what matters, not if someone subscribes to the particulars of a given style guide. Saying otherwise just serves to suppress the voices of people who speak other dialects.

sumedh 6y ago

> Indian dialect of English is not considered a "standard." Says who? If more than 200 million people follow it then it becomes a standard whether you like it or not.