5 ms·

I agree with this, but the case grows even stronger when you consider native mobile applications. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more apps in the future

I agree with this, but the case grows even stronger when you consider native mobile applications. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more apps in the future, and far fewer websites. Why? - Power consumption is much, much lower in a native mobile app - SwiftUI is easier than React and CSS. I've used both, and I can't think of a drawback. (Friends tell me good things about Flutter, though I have not used it.) - Web-like linking is just going to keep growing in apps - App store guarantees that my parents won't get hacked via their iPad, but I can't say the same about their old computers that run Chrome!

jnwatson 6y ago
I can't install the LinkedIn app because I can't trust they won't steal all my contacts (which they've done before). The web sandbox is a much stronger container.
- maxharris 6y ago
  Is that on Android, iOS, or both?
  - jnwatson 6y ago
    For me, iOS, but they were caught on both platforms.
    - heyoni 6y ago
      The app stole your contacts after you granted the app permission to access them, right? Not saying it’s your fault, just wondering if they used some loophole.
      - rumanator 6y ago
        > The app stole your contacts after you granted the app permission to access them, right? That completely misses the point. With mobile applications you are only a dark pattern away from clicking on a button and letting a third-party spy on all your contacts, location, personal info, etc. You don't get that with the web.
        heyoni 6y ago
        So they didn’t use a loophole? Cool, cause that was all I cared about. Also, you will get all of that with the web. Just check google chrome to see what kind of permissions can be granted for any individual website. Contact sharing is right around the corner.
    - maxharris 6y ago
      How long ago was this? I get the sense that their sandboxing is improving?
    - harrisonjackson 6y ago
      LinkedIn is why I won't ever again grant any app this permission ever.
TheFullstackGuy 6y ago
I personally feel like websites will win the war against native mobile apps in the long run. I read a while ago that Steve Jobs never wanted the idea of an App Store on iOS, as he believed webapps and web based services would evolve naturally without any added infrastructure, whereas an App Store would require extreme development effort and infrastructure from Apple. Obviously he was wrong, and the App Store exploded once it was added. However, I believe long term his idea is correct, it was just wrong timing. Webapps have only gotten more and more powerful as time has gone on, and they do not require any explicit download from the user and can be updated automatically by the developer. More and more access to the devices physical resources is slowly being added as the years go on, and it’s only a matter of time until more and more are added. I will admit for scenarios like games or resource intensive computing where access to bare metal is necessary, I’m not sure webapps will be able to fill that void. But for most everything else I see the web as a the future, while mobile apps are the temporary means to an end while browser APIs and capabilities catch up
- SPBS 6y ago
  Okay but web apps have no killer app to motivate switching to. Whatever killer app that webapps can come up with, so can native apps. The two benefits - webapps don't need to be explicitly downloaded - webapps don't need to be explicitly updated Sound good but downloading and updating was never a problem in the eyes of the general consumer. On the other hand - native apps are faster And that's a compelling benefit for that even non technical people will prefer native apps for.
  - flo123456 6y ago
    There are really many people who just do not install any apps. Reasons vary a lot, but these people always have access to a browser and use webapps. The other killer „feature“ of webapps is that you can have a single one for multiple platforms.
    - bokwoon 6y ago
      > The other killer „feature“ of webapps is that you can have a single one for multiple platforms. That's a feature for developers, not consumers. Consumers will be unhappy if you tell them your mobile app doesn't exist on the app store and must be downloaded from some third party website.
dawnerd 6y ago
I don’t think apps can be called more efficient. A good majority are just web wrappers anyway. I’ve tried the twitter app for example multiple times and it always causes iOS to lock up when changing apps. It’s the only app that does it and extended use causes the phone to heat up. Websites can have ad blockers too which I’d argue make the web versions way more efficient.
untog 6y ago
SwiftUI is better than React and CSS... on iPhone. It’s not going to help you at all on Android. So at a bare minimum you’re replacing React and CSS with two totally different UI implementations. Maintaining two separate code bases (and hiring engineers to do so) is not simpler than React and CSS. And we haven’t even started talking about desktop. And I’m not convinced about the “hacked” argument. How can anyone be hacked via any web browser on an iPhone? At least on Android they could download an APK without knowing what they’re doing but default security will stop them installing it. Meanwhile we’ve recently discovered that a ton of native apps constantly read the user’s clipboard, something web sites aren’t able to do. So it’s nuanced at best. But IMO the biggest argument for the web is simply that you don’t have to install it. If I’m shopping I want to browse through a few different sites, I’m not going to download and install an app just to look at one product listing.
- postfacto 6y ago
  I’ve found the two codebases approach, one for iOS and one for Android, is simpler and cheaper because native development tools are just so better.
  - untog 6y ago
    Then you’re doing web development wrong, frankly.
- wdb 6y ago
  You will always keep separate code base for Android and iOS due to difference in the interaction paradigms between the platforms. Doesn't matter if the code is in Javascript/CSS or shared via Swift between Android and iOS. For native apps. For web it's different but you see more and more webapps following the Android's Material Design which for me feels awkward on Windows or macOS.

jnwatson 6y ago

I can't install the LinkedIn app because I can't trust they won't steal all my contacts (which they've done before). The web sandbox is a much stronger container.

maxharris 6y ago
Is that on Android, iOS, or both?
- jnwatson 6y ago
  For me, iOS, but they were caught on both platforms.
  - heyoni 6y ago
    The app stole your contacts after you granted the app permission to access them, right? Not saying it’s your fault, just wondering if they used some loophole.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > The app stole your contacts after you granted the app permission to access them, right? That completely misses the point. With mobile applications you are only a dark pattern away from clicking on a button and letting a third-party spy on all your contacts, location, personal info, etc. You don't get that with the web.
      - heyoni 6y ago
        So they didn’t use a loophole? Cool, cause that was all I cared about. Also, you will get all of that with the web. Just check google chrome to see what kind of permissions can be granted for any individual website. Contact sharing is right around the corner.
  - maxharris 6y ago
    How long ago was this? I get the sense that their sandboxing is improving?
  - harrisonjackson 6y ago
    LinkedIn is why I won't ever again grant any app this permission ever.

TheFullstackGuy 6y ago

I personally feel like websites will win the war against native mobile apps in the long run. I read a while ago that Steve Jobs never wanted the idea of an App Store on iOS, as he believed webapps and web based services would evolve naturally without any added infrastructure, whereas an App Store would require extreme development effort and infrastructure from Apple. Obviously he was wrong, and the App Store exploded once it was added. However, I believe long term his idea is correct, it was just wrong timing. Webapps have only gotten more and more powerful as time has gone on, and they do not require any explicit download from the user and can be updated automatically by the developer. More and more access to the devices physical resources is slowly being added as the years go on, and it’s only a matter of time until more and more are added. I will admit for scenarios like games or resource intensive computing where access to bare metal is necessary, I’m not sure webapps will be able to fill that void. But for most everything else I see the web as a the future, while mobile apps are the temporary means to an end while browser APIs and capabilities catch up

SPBS 6y ago
Okay but web apps have no killer app to motivate switching to. Whatever killer app that webapps can come up with, so can native apps. The two benefits - webapps don't need to be explicitly downloaded - webapps don't need to be explicitly updated Sound good but downloading and updating was never a problem in the eyes of the general consumer. On the other hand - native apps are faster And that's a compelling benefit for that even non technical people will prefer native apps for.
- flo123456 6y ago
  There are really many people who just do not install any apps. Reasons vary a lot, but these people always have access to a browser and use webapps. The other killer „feature“ of webapps is that you can have a single one for multiple platforms.
  - bokwoon 6y ago
    > The other killer „feature“ of webapps is that you can have a single one for multiple platforms. That's a feature for developers, not consumers. Consumers will be unhappy if you tell them your mobile app doesn't exist on the app store and must be downloaded from some third party website.

dawnerd 6y ago

I don’t think apps can be called more efficient. A good majority are just web wrappers anyway. I’ve tried the twitter app for example multiple times and it always causes iOS to lock up when changing apps. It’s the only app that does it and extended use causes the phone to heat up. Websites can have ad blockers too which I’d argue make the web versions way more efficient.

untog 6y ago

SwiftUI is better than React and CSS... on iPhone. It’s not going to help you at all on Android. So at a bare minimum you’re replacing React and CSS with two totally different UI implementations. Maintaining two separate code bases (and hiring engineers to do so) is not simpler than React and CSS. And we haven’t even started talking about desktop. And I’m not convinced about the “hacked” argument. How can anyone be hacked via any web browser on an iPhone? At least on Android they could download an APK without knowing what they’re doing but default security will stop them installing it. Meanwhile we’ve recently discovered that a ton of native apps constantly read the user’s clipboard, something web sites aren’t able to do. So it’s nuanced at best. But IMO the biggest argument for the web is simply that you don’t have to install it. If I’m shopping I want to browse through a few different sites, I’m not going to download and install an app just to look at one product listing.

postfacto 6y ago
I’ve found the two codebases approach, one for iOS and one for Android, is simpler and cheaper because native development tools are just so better.
- untog 6y ago
  Then you’re doing web development wrong, frankly.
wdb 6y ago
You will always keep separate code base for Android and iOS due to difference in the interaction paradigms between the platforms. Doesn't matter if the code is in Javascript/CSS or shared via Swift between Android and iOS. For native apps. For web it's different but you see more and more webapps following the Android's Material Design which for me feels awkward on Windows or macOS.