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Your generalization of Indian colleges is not right. India has a lot of Engineering students. There are around 60k students joining Tier 1 colleges every year

Your generalization of Indian colleges is not right. India has a lot of Engineering students. There are around 60k students joining Tier 1 colleges every year in India (IITs, NITs, etc funded by the Central Government alongside some private colleges like BITS). Very few students from Tier 1 colleges join these consultancy companies. Most of them studying CS from these colleges join product companies like Flipkart, Swiggy, Paytm, Amazon, Microsoft, Uber etc. Consultancy companies get students mostly from 2nd and 3rd tier (mostly private) colleges. Pretty much all these colleges are in a very bad shape. I think there are over half a million students enrolled in these colleges every year. Students still go to these engineering colleges since the education is not as expensive as in the USA and it's what pretty much everyone do after high school. If it was USA they would have just left college altogether instead of wasting money on a terrible college. Sure, the quality of education of Tier 1 colleges can be improved a lot as well. But generalizing the entire Indian engineering education as the reason why these consultancy companies are doing poor is not correct either.

lloydatkinson 6y ago
"As an Indian"
- newen 6y ago
  You can be Indian and still be wrong about aspects of your country. In GPs case, he was generalizing too much about Indian universities.
  - viig99 6y ago
    Staggering over-generalization
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - entha_saava 6y ago
    How many of us get to study in IITs?
JAlexoid 6y ago
60k is about 4% of all CS related engineering students in India. So, the generalisation is accurate.
- blocked_again 6y ago
  60k from tier one engineering colleges. It includes all branches. Not only CS students. Similar number to the number of students enrolled as undergrads in entire engineering colleges in USA. The number of engineering students enrolled in India as undergrad is around 350k (It's not over half million. My bad). So students from tier 1 colleges makes about 17%. That's not a small fraction that can be ignored.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    Statista says that CS in India is 880k + 660k of Electronics Engineering (CS adjascent field). That's 1.54mil students in the field that we are talking about. 60k of tier one - are fairly smart and probably half of them are brilliant and passionate(being very generous here). They are the outliers that prove a point. That said - 4 year degree shouldn't be a requirement in software engineering. It's a very poor quality marker https://www.statista.com/statistics/765482/india-number-of-students-enrolled-in-engineering-stream-by-discipline/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/765482/india-number-of-s...
    - blocked_again 6y ago
      Wow. That's a lot.
entha_saava 6y ago
Yeah. Tier 1 colleges. Tell me more about NITs and IITs. I study at a so colled top college. Where highest placement is always around 50-60 LPa. That doesn't mean teaching and other things are good (sure better than average, but that's not what I call 'good'). The highest placements are more because of students and a FEW professors who actually happen to be passionate. But in the entire class, there are less than 15% of people who actually have interest in CS or Programming. Many came through good scores in entrance exams (myself included) and many through management quota (i.e Paying the institution heavy sums). While the first group has some people who like programming and CS, it also has more number of people who just happened to get good scores because of relentless studying and practice, then took CSE branch because placements. I don't think NITs and IITs look much better these days. I attempted JEE but that was really hard to get an NIT without studying hard for 2-4 years. People who have money take coaching classes and study for JEE exclusively, but a rural student like me can't do that. The system is gamed like hell. With the abundance of such coaching kids, I don't think IITs and NITs can keep their previous charm. Here is a paper on the Joint Entrance exam (JEE) tragedy: https://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/hk/jee/press/currScienceJEE.pdf https://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/hk/jee/press/currScienceJEE...
- blocked_again 6y ago
  I dont't really understand what point you are trying to make. Nobody is saying all the students in top tier colleges studying CS are super passsionate into CS. Some are. A lot of them are not. My point is that tier 1 colleges produce a lot of good programmers. The reason why they are good at programming can be because of high salary expectations, peerpressure, parents, status, passion, etc. I honestly couldn't care less as long as they do their job. The reason why companies like TCS/Infosys are bad is not because tier 1 colleges produce programmers that are not passionate about CS. It's because India has way too many Engineering colleges that is of abysmal quality. And those colleges accept students who otherwise would not have gotten into any decent engineering colleges > Many came through good scores in entrance exams (myself included) and many through management quota (i.e Paying the institution heavy sum I don't think there are any tier A colleges that takes money for accepting students. Highest package is not really what is used for defining tier A. What I meant by tier A are centrally funded colleges like IITs, NITs and really good private colleges like BITS and IIIT-H(not SRM, MIT etc). None of them take students by accepting money. If the college takes students by accepting money then it is definitely not tier A. > The system is gamed like hell. With the abundance of such coaching kids, I don't think IITs and NITs can keep their previous charm. Sure. The system is gamed. But it's still a fair system. The rules are same for everyone. You are measured by the number of correct answers you circle in the paper. Nobody cares about who your parents are. Nobody cares about what you wrote in your essay. Its a hard competetion. But it's a fair competetion. There is reservation at play for students from backward castes as well but lt's not get into that. Some would say it's good. Some would say it's bad.
mavidser 6y ago
These consulting companies are often referred to as "mass recruiters" in most engineering colleges. I went to one such school too, and the the qualifying test/interview was a couple of CS101 questions, and was the default option of employment for anyone who wasn't joining any other organization (this also included good mechanical, chemical and civil engineers with little to no CS background, but the market had slowed down at the time, and they had to resort to IT jobs). This might not be the case for every firm or client, but I hear a lot of my friends complaining about there not being very little work, and if you're someone competent enough, you can complete a day's work in an hour and play Fortnite for the rest of the day.

lloydatkinson 6y ago

"As an Indian"

newen 6y ago
You can be Indian and still be wrong about aspects of your country. In GPs case, he was generalizing too much about Indian universities.
- viig99 6y ago
  Staggering over-generalization
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- entha_saava 6y ago
  How many of us get to study in IITs?

JAlexoid 6y ago

60k is about 4% of all CS related engineering students in India. So, the generalisation is accurate.

blocked_again 6y ago
60k from tier one engineering colleges. It includes all branches. Not only CS students. Similar number to the number of students enrolled as undergrads in entire engineering colleges in USA. The number of engineering students enrolled in India as undergrad is around 350k (It's not over half million. My bad). So students from tier 1 colleges makes about 17%. That's not a small fraction that can be ignored.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Statista says that CS in India is 880k + 660k of Electronics Engineering (CS adjascent field). That's 1.54mil students in the field that we are talking about. 60k of tier one - are fairly smart and probably half of them are brilliant and passionate(being very generous here). They are the outliers that prove a point. That said - 4 year degree shouldn't be a requirement in software engineering. It's a very poor quality marker https://www.statista.com/statistics/765482/india-number-of-students-enrolled-in-engineering-stream-by-discipline/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/765482/india-number-of-s...
  - blocked_again 6y ago
    Wow. That's a lot.

entha_saava 6y ago

Yeah. Tier 1 colleges. Tell me more about NITs and IITs. I study at a so colled top college. Where highest placement is always around 50-60 LPa. That doesn't mean teaching and other things are good (sure better than average, but that's not what I call 'good'). The highest placements are more because of students and a FEW professors who actually happen to be passionate. But in the entire class, there are less than 15% of people who actually have interest in CS or Programming. Many came through good scores in entrance exams (myself included) and many through management quota (i.e Paying the institution heavy sums). While the first group has some people who like programming and CS, it also has more number of people who just happened to get good scores because of relentless studying and practice, then took CSE branch because placements. I don't think NITs and IITs look much better these days. I attempted JEE but that was really hard to get an NIT without studying hard for 2-4 years. People who have money take coaching classes and study for JEE exclusively, but a rural student like me can't do that. The system is gamed like hell. With the abundance of such coaching kids, I don't think IITs and NITs can keep their previous charm. Here is a paper on the Joint Entrance exam (JEE) tragedy: https://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/hk/jee/press/currScienceJEE.pdf https://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/hk/jee/press/currScienceJEE...

blocked_again 6y ago
I dont't really understand what point you are trying to make. Nobody is saying all the students in top tier colleges studying CS are super passsionate into CS. Some are. A lot of them are not. My point is that tier 1 colleges produce a lot of good programmers. The reason why they are good at programming can be because of high salary expectations, peerpressure, parents, status, passion, etc. I honestly couldn't care less as long as they do their job. The reason why companies like TCS/Infosys are bad is not because tier 1 colleges produce programmers that are not passionate about CS. It's because India has way too many Engineering colleges that is of abysmal quality. And those colleges accept students who otherwise would not have gotten into any decent engineering colleges > Many came through good scores in entrance exams (myself included) and many through management quota (i.e Paying the institution heavy sum I don't think there are any tier A colleges that takes money for accepting students. Highest package is not really what is used for defining tier A. What I meant by tier A are centrally funded colleges like IITs, NITs and really good private colleges like BITS and IIIT-H(not SRM, MIT etc). None of them take students by accepting money. If the college takes students by accepting money then it is definitely not tier A. > The system is gamed like hell. With the abundance of such coaching kids, I don't think IITs and NITs can keep their previous charm. Sure. The system is gamed. But it's still a fair system. The rules are same for everyone. You are measured by the number of correct answers you circle in the paper. Nobody cares about who your parents are. Nobody cares about what you wrote in your essay. Its a hard competetion. But it's a fair competetion. There is reservation at play for students from backward castes as well but lt's not get into that. Some would say it's good. Some would say it's bad.

mavidser 6y ago

These consulting companies are often referred to as "mass recruiters" in most engineering colleges. I went to one such school too, and the the qualifying test/interview was a couple of CS101 questions, and was the default option of employment for anyone who wasn't joining any other organization (this also included good mechanical, chemical and civil engineers with little to no CS background, but the market had slowed down at the time, and they had to resort to IT jobs). This might not be the case for every firm or client, but I hear a lot of my friends complaining about there not being very little work, and if you're someone competent enough, you can complete a day's work in an hour and play Fortnite for the rest of the day.