7 ms·

I'm an American citizen, but many of my current and former colleagues have moved here from other countries. On a number of occasions, those colleagues have expl

I'm an American citizen, but many of my current and former colleagues have moved here from other countries. On a number of occasions, those colleagues have explained something about their own immigration process. The current system is crazy. What is the likelihood of process simplification? What are some groups that are pushing for concrete, attainable steps to simplify the process?

nos4A2 6y ago
Thank you for this comment, it made my day. I usually see posts wanting skilled immigrants out. The last few months have been especially bad due to the various policies that have been adopted.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  > I usually see posts wanting skilled immigrants out. You have your answer there. There are a lot of Americans who love and welcome immigrants (and I know many of them – 99% of my friends are American), but there are also many who hate immigrants, and of all places, many of these immigrant-haters have found a home at HN. (Open up any HN thread on US visas and immigration, and the level of immigrant-hatred and xenophobia is truly stunning and appalling.) These Americans who hate immigrants vote. You can guess what party they vote. Their votes are the reason our immigration system is broken beyond measure. There was a bill, called the "Gang of Eight" bill (or S.744 of the 113th Congress) which would have fixed many issues with our immigration system. It failed to pass in Congress because of Republican obstructionism. It passed the Senate with a super majority, but was blocked by the House despite majority support because of the GOP speaker not allowing a vote on it, in order to pander to the extreme wing of the party. (Also, as a side note, the GOP's House majority was won in 2012 through gerrymandering – the popular vote for the House in 2012 had been for Democrats.) If you want an answer to why the immigration system is broken – this is pretty much it. There are plenty of people who hate immigrants, and you can have the displeasure of meeting them, and reading their horrifically anti-immigrant comments right here on HN. They hate immigrants and want immigrants out, so we are at the deplorable place that we find ourselves in today.
  - amf12 6y ago
    > These Americans who hate immigrants vote. You can guess what party they vote. Their votes are the reason our immigration system is broken beyond measure. I am not sure if that's really the case. Case in point, the Obama administration. They had 8 years to fix this, but they didn't. Now Obama did do some small changes that were a net positive to the immigrant community (Work Permit for spouses who are waiting for GC, 1 year increase in work permit for students who graduate from US colleges, etc). But all the other bad parts of the system are unchanged.
    - winter_blue 6y ago
      > They had 8 years to fix this, but they didn't. I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, or if you simply are ignorant of how the U.S. Constitution / government works. There are two types/levels of federal laws: (1) statutory laws - made by Congress ("U.S.C."/US Code), and (2) regulatory laws ("C.F.R.") - made by the Executive Branch. For a statutory law to pass in the US, the House + Senate + President has to agree. When one party has control over all 3, it's called a "trifecta". Moreover, in the Senate, you need 60% votes due to the what's called the legislative filibuster. Democrats had a trifecta only for 2 years (2009 and 2010). During the remaining 6 years that Obama was in office, Republicans blocked practically everything substantive. The Democrats actually did try to pass a small immigration bill (the DREAM Act) during their trifecta, but that bill (S. 2205) got 52-44 votes, and thus failed due to the legislative filibuster. It's extremely difficult to pass statutory laws in the US. Obama and the Democrats spent put a huge amount of effort trying to fix the immigration system, but they were blocked by Republicans through and through. > Obama did do some small changes He actually made a huge number of substantial changes with regard to immigration in our regulatory laws (the CFR). More than any recent President. Obama did everything he could that was within his power (ie within the power granted to him by the Constitution and statutory law).
      - amf12 6y ago
        > I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, or if you simply are ignorant of how the U.S. Constitution / government works. I do understand that. The thing though is, "trifecta" is difficult in practice and shouldn't really be a barrier to passing laws. My observation was mainly about fixing and overhauling the immigration system (combating fraud, streamlining it, etc - and not really about increasing or decreasing immigration). I am not sure Republicans were a barrier to such efforts.
manuelabeledo 6y ago
Thanks for noticing, it is really crazy indeed. I remember when my wife first came to my country of origin in the EU and it was pretty straightforward. Hope the US improves on this.
Natsu 6y ago
They actually have simplified one thing with electronic filing. At least now you can more easily know when you're "documentarily qualified" and it's electronic so they don't keep losing the stuff you already sent them and demanding it again and you can see exactly what they have. That, uhh, that doesn't stop them from simply forgetting to tell you when you have a consular interview and leaving you waiting for months pointlessly to receive the date. By the time we heard back from our Senator's legal counsel for advice, we already had the visa in hand, but that is a route of escalation if things go crazy. Anyone who gets stuck like that is advised to talk to the consulate directly or have their lawyer do so. Overall, for us, the worst thing was the glacial speed things move at. It's funded by the fees paid by applicants, so I don't know what can be done to speed things up, but it's incredibly frustrating to be left in limbo for a long time.
newyankee 6y ago
I moved back to my country (India) after more than a decade in USA because waiting list for my country was about 150+ years. I went to a good grad school, worked at big cos, was generally focused mostly on my work and well respected to the extent i know. It is unfortunately not my mistake that my country has 17% of the world's population and almost #1 or #2 waiting list in Green card applications. I had to follow rules as i worked at a Big Tech company. However many folks who worked for smaller sweat shop IT firms which are generally scammy in nature got their green cards as they were given designations of manager or filed under separate priority designations. Big Tech company like mine followed all rules strictly so bending or interpretation was out of question. It is just the way it is, i do not complain. I understand the need for a more merit based overhaul. So many shades to the story though. I have seen many people getting diversity lottery just by virtue of having a family member in USA. I have seen people from lower populated countries getting green cards much faster and doing simple jobs like working at Walmart without complaining. I think clear policy is helpful, either it is merit based or it is not. Merit is very difficult to define as well.
- mattm 6y ago
  > I have seen many people getting diversity lottery just by virtue of having a family member in USA. AFAIK the diversity lottery is random and doesn't take family members into account.

nos4A2 6y ago

Thank you for this comment, it made my day. I usually see posts wanting skilled immigrants out. The last few months have been especially bad due to the various policies that have been adopted.

winter_blue 6y ago
> I usually see posts wanting skilled immigrants out. You have your answer there. There are a lot of Americans who love and welcome immigrants (and I know many of them – 99% of my friends are American), but there are also many who hate immigrants, and of all places, many of these immigrant-haters have found a home at HN. (Open up any HN thread on US visas and immigration, and the level of immigrant-hatred and xenophobia is truly stunning and appalling.) These Americans who hate immigrants vote. You can guess what party they vote. Their votes are the reason our immigration system is broken beyond measure. There was a bill, called the "Gang of Eight" bill (or S.744 of the 113th Congress) which would have fixed many issues with our immigration system. It failed to pass in Congress because of Republican obstructionism. It passed the Senate with a super majority, but was blocked by the House despite majority support because of the GOP speaker not allowing a vote on it, in order to pander to the extreme wing of the party. (Also, as a side note, the GOP's House majority was won in 2012 through gerrymandering – the popular vote for the House in 2012 had been for Democrats.) If you want an answer to why the immigration system is broken – this is pretty much it. There are plenty of people who hate immigrants, and you can have the displeasure of meeting them, and reading their horrifically anti-immigrant comments right here on HN. They hate immigrants and want immigrants out, so we are at the deplorable place that we find ourselves in today.
- amf12 6y ago
  > These Americans who hate immigrants vote. You can guess what party they vote. Their votes are the reason our immigration system is broken beyond measure. I am not sure if that's really the case. Case in point, the Obama administration. They had 8 years to fix this, but they didn't. Now Obama did do some small changes that were a net positive to the immigrant community (Work Permit for spouses who are waiting for GC, 1 year increase in work permit for students who graduate from US colleges, etc). But all the other bad parts of the system are unchanged.
  - winter_blue 6y ago
    > They had 8 years to fix this, but they didn't. I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, or if you simply are ignorant of how the U.S. Constitution / government works. There are two types/levels of federal laws: (1) statutory laws - made by Congress ("U.S.C."/US Code), and (2) regulatory laws ("C.F.R.") - made by the Executive Branch. For a statutory law to pass in the US, the House + Senate + President has to agree. When one party has control over all 3, it's called a "trifecta". Moreover, in the Senate, you need 60% votes due to the what's called the legislative filibuster. Democrats had a trifecta only for 2 years (2009 and 2010). During the remaining 6 years that Obama was in office, Republicans blocked practically everything substantive. The Democrats actually did try to pass a small immigration bill (the DREAM Act) during their trifecta, but that bill (S. 2205) got 52-44 votes, and thus failed due to the legislative filibuster. It's extremely difficult to pass statutory laws in the US. Obama and the Democrats spent put a huge amount of effort trying to fix the immigration system, but they were blocked by Republicans through and through. > Obama did do some small changes He actually made a huge number of substantial changes with regard to immigration in our regulatory laws (the CFR). More than any recent President. Obama did everything he could that was within his power (ie within the power granted to him by the Constitution and statutory law).
    - amf12 6y ago
      > I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, or if you simply are ignorant of how the U.S. Constitution / government works. I do understand that. The thing though is, "trifecta" is difficult in practice and shouldn't really be a barrier to passing laws. My observation was mainly about fixing and overhauling the immigration system (combating fraud, streamlining it, etc - and not really about increasing or decreasing immigration). I am not sure Republicans were a barrier to such efforts.

manuelabeledo 6y ago

Thanks for noticing, it is really crazy indeed. I remember when my wife first came to my country of origin in the EU and it was pretty straightforward. Hope the US improves on this.

Natsu 6y ago

They actually have simplified one thing with electronic filing. At least now you can more easily know when you're "documentarily qualified" and it's electronic so they don't keep losing the stuff you already sent them and demanding it again and you can see exactly what they have. That, uhh, that doesn't stop them from simply forgetting to tell you when you have a consular interview and leaving you waiting for months pointlessly to receive the date. By the time we heard back from our Senator's legal counsel for advice, we already had the visa in hand, but that is a route of escalation if things go crazy. Anyone who gets stuck like that is advised to talk to the consulate directly or have their lawyer do so. Overall, for us, the worst thing was the glacial speed things move at. It's funded by the fees paid by applicants, so I don't know what can be done to speed things up, but it's incredibly frustrating to be left in limbo for a long time.

newyankee 6y ago

I moved back to my country (India) after more than a decade in USA because waiting list for my country was about 150+ years. I went to a good grad school, worked at big cos, was generally focused mostly on my work and well respected to the extent i know. It is unfortunately not my mistake that my country has 17% of the world's population and almost #1 or #2 waiting list in Green card applications. I had to follow rules as i worked at a Big Tech company. However many folks who worked for smaller sweat shop IT firms which are generally scammy in nature got their green cards as they were given designations of manager or filed under separate priority designations. Big Tech company like mine followed all rules strictly so bending or interpretation was out of question. It is just the way it is, i do not complain. I understand the need for a more merit based overhaul. So many shades to the story though. I have seen many people getting diversity lottery just by virtue of having a family member in USA. I have seen people from lower populated countries getting green cards much faster and doing simple jobs like working at Walmart without complaining. I think clear policy is helpful, either it is merit based or it is not. Merit is very difficult to define as well.

mattm 6y ago
> I have seen many people getting diversity lottery just by virtue of having a family member in USA. AFAIK the diversity lottery is random and doesn't take family members into account.