10 ms·

I'm a bit surprised that there are so many Canadian & Europeans wanting to get into the US to work at this point given our rapidly deteriorating political and c

I'm a bit surprised that there are so many Canadian & Europeans wanting to get into the US to work at this point given our rapidly deteriorating political and covid19 situation.

gpm 6y ago
The US, or at least the bay area, pays more. Besides, you guys are generating herdv immunity as fast as possible. Time it right and moving to the US could greatly decrease your chances of being infected.
- seanieb 6y ago
  I would love to hear where you got the idea: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immu...
  - gpm 6y ago
    To be clear, this is a individual strategy not a group one. It's moving from a place with a curve that spikes late, to a place with a curve that spikes early, such that you dodge both spikes. This doesn't work for society as a whole (which can't just up and move to dodge the virus). Nor am I claiming that California has yet achieved any substantial degree of herd immunity. Just that projecting current rates forward I think you will before I actually end up moving there (it helps that I have a lot of flexibility). That said, the 70% figure in your article is too high. Research [1] and experience in Sweden [2] suggests that there are substantial benefits at just 40%. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/science.abc6810.long https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/scie... [2] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Ffhm-stockholm-kan-ha-40-procents-immunitet%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3...
superhuzza 6y ago
My last job in Canada paid me $70k CAD, or $52k USD. The same job in the US would likely pay me $115k USD.
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  Sure, but in Canada you've got a much more robust social safety net and healthcare not to mention a sane leader. Now that a lot of jobs are allowing remote work why not live in Canada and work for a US company?
  - boojing 6y ago
    A safety net and gov provided healthcare isn't all that important for your average high earning single tech worker who has no kids.
  - vkou 6y ago
    Because salaries are adjusted based on which postal code you live at, so you'll be getting Canadian wages if you're working in Canada.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Our "sane" leader is currently being invested for receiving kick-backs through a gov't funded non-profit. The US offers much better opportunities and compensation. And as a upper-middle class worker, healthcare isn't really any issue.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Consider that your cost of living may be dramatically higher in the US and what you can do with what you have left over may not leave you any better off. Certainly, you're not talking about working in the Bay Area because a $115K total compensation is borderline impossible to live on anywhere between SF and SJ. Your thinking could be right, however I would say it depends heavily on where you're living now and where you plan on moving to. 70K CAD in Ottawa or Montreal is going to get you infinitely further than 115K USD in SF or SJ. You'd probably need closer to 200K in SF to match that lifestyle. Instead of comparing your $70K CAD salary at home by converting to $52K USD at market exchange rates, you should adjust it via purchasing power parity (as you are looking to figure out how far your new pay would take you in your new home relative to what you have now -- not make a purchase in the other country with foreign money). $70K CAD, adjusted for PPP is $75K USD. If you did the same notional conversion for $115K USD in San Francisco (where real estate is 7X the national average price per square foot) you'd probably wind up at $50K. Now if you're planning to save money and send it home, that's different.
0xy 6y ago
If you're a European, chances are you earn 1/6th of the salary of an equivalently skilled American in tech. That's why they want to move. Europe screws tech workers. Would you trade better politics, as you perceive, for millions of dollars less in retirement when considering compounding investments? In fact, Europeans can earn substantially more money by moving to the UK or Switzerland even. EU countries are some of the worst places to be for a talented software engineer. New graduates in the US often earn more than senior-level developers in the EU.

I'm a bit surprised that there are so many Canadian & Europeans wanting to get into the US to work at this point given our rapidly deteriorating political and covid19 situation.

gpm 6y ago

The US, or at least the bay area, pays more. Besides, you guys are generating herdv immunity as fast as possible. Time it right and moving to the US could greatly decrease your chances of being infected.

seanieb 6y ago
I would love to hear where you got the idea: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immu...
- gpm 6y ago
  To be clear, this is a individual strategy not a group one. It's moving from a place with a curve that spikes late, to a place with a curve that spikes early, such that you dodge both spikes. This doesn't work for society as a whole (which can't just up and move to dodge the virus). Nor am I claiming that California has yet achieved any substantial degree of herd immunity. Just that projecting current rates forward I think you will before I actually end up moving there (it helps that I have a lot of flexibility). That said, the 70% figure in your article is too high. Research [1] and experience in Sweden [2] suggests that there are substantial benefits at just 40%. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/science.abc6810.long https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/scie... [2] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Ffhm-stockholm-kan-ha-40-procents-immunitet%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3...

superhuzza 6y ago

My last job in Canada paid me $70k CAD, or $52k USD. The same job in the US would likely pay me $115k USD.

UncleOxidant 6y ago
Sure, but in Canada you've got a much more robust social safety net and healthcare not to mention a sane leader. Now that a lot of jobs are allowing remote work why not live in Canada and work for a US company?
- boojing 6y ago
  A safety net and gov provided healthcare isn't all that important for your average high earning single tech worker who has no kids.
- vkou 6y ago
  Because salaries are adjusted based on which postal code you live at, so you'll be getting Canadian wages if you're working in Canada.
- refurb 6y ago
  Our "sane" leader is currently being invested for receiving kick-backs through a gov't funded non-profit. The US offers much better opportunities and compensation. And as a upper-middle class worker, healthcare isn't really any issue.
arcticbull 6y ago
Consider that your cost of living may be dramatically higher in the US and what you can do with what you have left over may not leave you any better off. Certainly, you're not talking about working in the Bay Area because a $115K total compensation is borderline impossible to live on anywhere between SF and SJ. Your thinking could be right, however I would say it depends heavily on where you're living now and where you plan on moving to. 70K CAD in Ottawa or Montreal is going to get you infinitely further than 115K USD in SF or SJ. You'd probably need closer to 200K in SF to match that lifestyle. Instead of comparing your $70K CAD salary at home by converting to $52K USD at market exchange rates, you should adjust it via purchasing power parity (as you are looking to figure out how far your new pay would take you in your new home relative to what you have now -- not make a purchase in the other country with foreign money). $70K CAD, adjusted for PPP is $75K USD. If you did the same notional conversion for $115K USD in San Francisco (where real estate is 7X the national average price per square foot) you'd probably wind up at $50K. Now if you're planning to save money and send it home, that's different.

0xy 6y ago

If you're a European, chances are you earn 1/6th of the salary of an equivalently skilled American in tech. That's why they want to move. Europe screws tech workers. Would you trade better politics, as you perceive, for millions of dollars less in retirement when considering compounding investments? In fact, Europeans can earn substantially more money by moving to the UK or Switzerland even. EU countries are some of the worst places to be for a talented software engineer. New graduates in the US often earn more than senior-level developers in the EU.