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I had extremely good experiences with opening a subsidiary office in Sofia, Bulgaria (not outsourcing, but legit part of the company.) Code quality went way up

I had extremely good experiences with opening a subsidiary office in Sofia, Bulgaria (not outsourcing, but legit part of the company.) Code quality went way up compared to what was developed in the US/UK, somewhat less expensive (but not that much, like you said), and most importantly and perhaps also the most surprisingly, the attitude of the young kids working there is way more positive and well-adjusted that what we see when hiring in the US/UK (especially in the UK). At this point it's not even about the money, it's just that they're more pleasant people to work with.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
Can confirm, eastern europeans are above average regarding technical skills, though sometimes lacking on the social side. If I had to outsource, I‘d go east. They’ve got some amazing talent. I would avoid southern europe and india. And yes, I have direct experience with all of those.
- sumedh 6y ago
  > I would avoid southern europe and india. Were you paying good salaries?
  - MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
    The problem is not that India doesn't have good developers, they do of course. The problem is that the average is brought down by the fact that a lot of people are only getting into IT because it is their best chance at living a middle-class life, not because its something they're interested in, and the volume business model of Indian outsourcing companies. Combine that with the "just do what you're told" mentality and its not a good deal, or only for certain projects. The problems with southern Europe are similar. Hierarchical business culture, placing high value on keeping appearances, different work-life-balance mindset. Some countries produce world-class software that people around the world use, some don't, and its not hard to see why. Its not coincidence.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      You did not answer the question.
hogFeast 6y ago
Yep, am in the UK. I have mainly outsourced design work (most to Belarus). Work is better, cheaper, faster, and the general attitude is better I would agree...I would even say they speak better English. In the UK, you will ask someone to do something, you wait a week, ask where it is, and they haven't started, need more information to start, and want more money. Jokes. I am not going to go on about it but, as a Brit, our tech is way way behind...and that is despite having all the advantages in the world.
- user5994461 6y ago
  Where did you try to outsource in the UK? I can't imagine trying to find an outsourcing firm in the UK. London can absorb all the good developers between tech companies, banks and startups. There is little reason to work as a freelancer trying to compete with Eastern Europe.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago

Can confirm, eastern europeans are above average regarding technical skills, though sometimes lacking on the social side. If I had to outsource, I‘d go east. They’ve got some amazing talent. I would avoid southern europe and india. And yes, I have direct experience with all of those.

sumedh 6y ago
> I would avoid southern europe and india. Were you paying good salaries?
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  The problem is not that India doesn't have good developers, they do of course. The problem is that the average is brought down by the fact that a lot of people are only getting into IT because it is their best chance at living a middle-class life, not because its something they're interested in, and the volume business model of Indian outsourcing companies. Combine that with the "just do what you're told" mentality and its not a good deal, or only for certain projects. The problems with southern Europe are similar. Hierarchical business culture, placing high value on keeping appearances, different work-life-balance mindset. Some countries produce world-class software that people around the world use, some don't, and its not hard to see why. Its not coincidence.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    You did not answer the question.

hogFeast 6y ago

Yep, am in the UK. I have mainly outsourced design work (most to Belarus). Work is better, cheaper, faster, and the general attitude is better I would agree...I would even say they speak better English. In the UK, you will ask someone to do something, you wait a week, ask where it is, and they haven't started, need more information to start, and want more money. Jokes. I am not going to go on about it but, as a Brit, our tech is way way behind...and that is despite having all the advantages in the world.

user5994461 6y ago
Where did you try to outsource in the UK? I can't imagine trying to find an outsourcing firm in the UK. London can absorb all the good developers between tech companies, banks and startups. There is little reason to work as a freelancer trying to compete with Eastern Europe.