6 ms·

1949 is not what most people would consider "a few decades ago".

peruvian 6y ago
Greece's junta government lasted until '74. That's still ~50 years ago but it's not like this stuff goes away immediately. I'm from South America where the US experimented with setting up dictatorships after WWII as well, and the effects are still felt today.
- teh_klev 6y ago
  Exactly. Spain's government and institutions are still riddled with Francoists despite passing away in 1975 and there's still very much a fascist element that rear their ugly heads from time to time.
  - narag 6y ago
    Spain's government is socialist + communist.
    - teh_klev 6y ago
      Sure, the "government" is, as in the elected representatives, which is just a recent thing, but I think you'll find the Franco old guard lurking in many non-elected but powerful positions. And it wasn't so long ago that Madrid sent the Guardia Civil to suppress, with violence and impunity, the Catalonian independence referendum. An organisation that still has links to modern Franco'ist supporters.
      - narag 6y ago
        Congratulations, I wouldn't know where to start with that heap of unadulterated bullshit.
        teh_klev 6y ago
        I have very strong links with Spain and would have been happy to engage in a discussion explaining my points but you decided to take things in a less than civil direction, so I won't.
        narag 6y ago
        If you wanted discussion and explaining, you should have thought twice before writing a comment so out of the line. You can't start insulting people and then pretend you wanted a civil conversation. Your "points" are completely ignorant. I've lived the whole transition from dictator's death in 1975 and I know first hand that what you say is a bunch of nonsense. Recklessness is a more charitable assumption than bad faith, but still unacceptable. Better inspect more closely what kind of racist Hitler apologists (not joking) you're getting your "information" from.
    - Followerer 6y ago
      Socialist + "extreme centre" at best. And that's the executive. The legislature and the judicial are still packed and dominated by francoists, respectively. And don't get me started on the military... Spain was an openly fascist country that made the transition into a covertly fascist one in the late 70s. It wasn't the democratic forces who forced the transition, it was the fascists who half-conceded it because they wanted a halo of legitimacy in the international stage.
      - JetSpiegel 6y ago
        Ironically, the old King that allegedly lead the change into "democracy" just ran away after accepting millions in bribes from Saudis, and having mistresses in the press gloating how much he loves her, he even let her skim a couple million off the top to buy some luxurious house.
        Followerer 6y ago
        And that's not the worst. The worst is that all of this was well known by pretty much everyone in the country. I've been hearing about these dealings, the King's affairs, and generalized corruption in the Royal House for 30 years (pretty much ever since I started paying attention to these things). Not only the country knew of the King's dealings with Saudis and other fascist dictators, they used those dealings to make a case in favor of the Monarchy. "Of course, he'll take a cut! It's the least he should get after sealing that multi-million deal!" went the general conversation (among the population, of course, the media remained silent at all times). This should give people a taste for how Spain works, and the attitude of their citizens. Another interesting thing that nobody has mentioned in the press yet is that maintenance and servicing (staff) of most if not all of the Monarchy assets (houses, palaces, boats!) is paid by Patrimonio Nacional (National Heritage; supposedly in charge of public assets of cultural and historical relevance), not by Casa Real (Royal Household; in charge of the Monarchy expenses). I.e.: a significant part of the budget allocated to public affairs is redirected to the private affairs of the Monarchy. Then they will claim "but relatively speaking, it's not that expensive", when a significant portion of the cost is hidden behind a different institution.
- Jenz 6y ago
  > I'm from South America where the US experimented with setting up dictatorships after WWII Source?
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
  - munk-a 6y ago
    Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Though I'm pretty amazed it isn't just common knowledge - America has a long history of fixing democracies... It takes working democracies and replaces them with military dictatorships.
    - Jenz 6y ago
      Thanks. “Common knowledge” of history (ancient and recent) differs vastly from country to country. In Norway, we basically just learn of USA that it’s the country that turns the tide of war whenever it enters; for which we learn of two occasions: 1st and 2nd WW; not much else. Pardon my english.
      - Hamuko 6y ago
        >In Norway, we basically just learn of USA that it’s the country that turns the tide of war whenever it enters Well, even that's not true. See: Vietnam.
        Jenz 6y ago
        What is common knowledge in Norway is that ‘USA does a lot of stupid stuff;’ and there generally seems to us that there’s a certain lack of education. How much truth this carries I never thought to check.
      - kebman 6y ago

Greece's junta government lasted until '74. That's still ~50 years ago but it's not like this stuff goes away immediately. I'm from South America where the US experimented with setting up dictatorships after WWII as well, and the effects are still felt today.

teh_klev 6y ago
Exactly. Spain's government and institutions are still riddled with Francoists despite passing away in 1975 and there's still very much a fascist element that rear their ugly heads from time to time.
- narag 6y ago
  Spain's government is socialist + communist.
  - teh_klev 6y ago
    Sure, the "government" is, as in the elected representatives, which is just a recent thing, but I think you'll find the Franco old guard lurking in many non-elected but powerful positions. And it wasn't so long ago that Madrid sent the Guardia Civil to suppress, with violence and impunity, the Catalonian independence referendum. An organisation that still has links to modern Franco'ist supporters.
    - narag 6y ago
      Congratulations, I wouldn't know where to start with that heap of unadulterated bullshit.
      - teh_klev 6y ago
        I have very strong links with Spain and would have been happy to engage in a discussion explaining my points but you decided to take things in a less than civil direction, so I won't.
        narag 6y ago
        If you wanted discussion and explaining, you should have thought twice before writing a comment so out of the line. You can't start insulting people and then pretend you wanted a civil conversation. Your "points" are completely ignorant. I've lived the whole transition from dictator's death in 1975 and I know first hand that what you say is a bunch of nonsense. Recklessness is a more charitable assumption than bad faith, but still unacceptable. Better inspect more closely what kind of racist Hitler apologists (not joking) you're getting your "information" from.
  - Followerer 6y ago
    Socialist + "extreme centre" at best. And that's the executive. The legislature and the judicial are still packed and dominated by francoists, respectively. And don't get me started on the military... Spain was an openly fascist country that made the transition into a covertly fascist one in the late 70s. It wasn't the democratic forces who forced the transition, it was the fascists who half-conceded it because they wanted a halo of legitimacy in the international stage.
    - JetSpiegel 6y ago
      Ironically, the old King that allegedly lead the change into "democracy" just ran away after accepting millions in bribes from Saudis, and having mistresses in the press gloating how much he loves her, he even let her skim a couple million off the top to buy some luxurious house.
      - Followerer 6y ago
        And that's not the worst. The worst is that all of this was well known by pretty much everyone in the country. I've been hearing about these dealings, the King's affairs, and generalized corruption in the Royal House for 30 years (pretty much ever since I started paying attention to these things). Not only the country knew of the King's dealings with Saudis and other fascist dictators, they used those dealings to make a case in favor of the Monarchy. "Of course, he'll take a cut! It's the least he should get after sealing that multi-million deal!" went the general conversation (among the population, of course, the media remained silent at all times). This should give people a taste for how Spain works, and the attitude of their citizens. Another interesting thing that nobody has mentioned in the press yet is that maintenance and servicing (staff) of most if not all of the Monarchy assets (houses, palaces, boats!) is paid by Patrimonio Nacional (National Heritage; supposedly in charge of public assets of cultural and historical relevance), not by Casa Real (Royal Household; in charge of the Monarchy expenses). I.e.: a significant part of the budget allocated to public affairs is redirected to the private affairs of the Monarchy. Then they will claim "but relatively speaking, it's not that expensive", when a significant portion of the cost is hidden behind a different institution.
Jenz 6y ago
> I'm from South America where the US experimented with setting up dictatorships after WWII Source?
- roywiggins 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
- munk-a 6y ago
  Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Though I'm pretty amazed it isn't just common knowledge - America has a long history of fixing democracies... It takes working democracies and replaces them with military dictatorships.
  - Jenz 6y ago
    Thanks. “Common knowledge” of history (ancient and recent) differs vastly from country to country. In Norway, we basically just learn of USA that it’s the country that turns the tide of war whenever it enters; for which we learn of two occasions: 1st and 2nd WW; not much else. Pardon my english.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      >In Norway, we basically just learn of USA that it’s the country that turns the tide of war whenever it enters Well, even that's not true. See: Vietnam.
      - Jenz 6y ago
        What is common knowledge in Norway is that ‘USA does a lot of stupid stuff;’ and there generally seems to us that there’s a certain lack of education. How much truth this carries I never thought to check.
    - kebman 6y ago