3 ms·

This is not a trolley problem and is just a language trick: "to support" means "to quietly endure" and "to promote". If you wanted to a variant of a trolley pro

This is not a trolley problem and is just a language trick: "to support" means "to quietly endure" and "to promote". If you wanted to a variant of a trolley problem for this it would be: there is a lever, if you pull it then something happens (you don't know what) and if you don't pull it then something else or the same thing continues to happen (you don't know what will or won't happen).

atoav 6y ago
And this is sidetracking. Even in the original trolley problem you don't know what is or isn't going to happen. For the sake of the thought experiment you certainly could just assume mathematical precision, but nowhere does it say you must. Back to the trolley problem and the thesis of everything being a subject of politics as in politics as "the principles relating to or inherent in a sphere or activity, especially when concerned with power and status." and "a particular set of political beliefs or principles". Is a rich aristocrat on the court of the french king who puts sticks down his throat so he can vomit and eat on while the poor starve at the gates apolitical? This aristocrat is completely minding his own business, might even be a very nice soul who never hurt a fly. In my eyes there is rarely any way to act apolitical. Even if you exile yourself in the desert that would be a choice that e.g. influences your family. This influence on your surrounding world is what makes things political, because we constantly decide how to interact with the society around us. And it doesn't matter if you hold strong political opinions or are oblivious to everything, what you do is still a part of politics (e.g. by signaling others what is commonly accepted behavior and which your (polical) values are. Do you pull the lever and kill the man or do you let the five other people die? What if they are kids? What if they are old people? What if they are black? Decisions like these are not arbitrary, they show us fundamental truths of how we think and work in relation to our surroundings, and this is – in my book – political.
- pandaman 6y ago
  >And this is sidetracking. Even in the original trolley problem you don't know what is or isn't going to happen. Indeed. The premise of the problem is that you believe that a certain action will cause a certain effect and the actual effects of your actions do not matter as it's an ethical and not mechanical, medical or engineering problem. >In my eyes there is rarely any way to act apolitical. It is understood. I just wanted to make you aware that in some other people eyes it's bonkers.
- cmurf 6y ago
  The problem is most people are spectators in their own country, not citizens. And they do have the luxury of apathy. It may very well be true they consider having an opinion on civil matters too strenuous, meaning it would take them away from the daily entertainment, the need to get attention, rather than paying attention. There's nothing to be done about it really. It's a kind of corruption and a cultural rot. George Carlin called these people dumbass motherfuckers. And I think that's diplomatic. Bullshit jobs, bullshit life, they are there to earn money only to spend it all to enrich someone else. It's so terrible they can't even be bothered to have an opinion about how civil society is organized, because really what they're living is something of a nightmare. They are so ignorant, they have anti-imagination. You give them an idea by historical reference, and it's instant annihilation, and time for more bonbons. The capacity to have a conversation just doesn't exist. And there were all kinds of ignorant kids, grew up in podunk poor towns, but still had an opinion about the civil and the uncivil. They were certainly political. And they volunteered to fight fascism and quite a lot of them died for it. Now, fascism is just name calling. It's not a real thing that exists, or could exist. It's just politics, which is also unimportant and mostly make believe. It's something that his site considers anti-intellectual. So when people intentionally refuse to think and wilfully run from fundamental truth, the situation is pretty dire. Apolitical is indistinguishable from apathy. Perhaps some part of it's cognitive dissonance, that at least suggests there's an awareness of a conflict that matters enough to ignore because it's more comfortable.

atoav 6y ago

And this is sidetracking. Even in the original trolley problem you don't know what is or isn't going to happen. For the sake of the thought experiment you certainly could just assume mathematical precision, but nowhere does it say you must. Back to the trolley problem and the thesis of everything being a subject of politics as in politics as "the principles relating to or inherent in a sphere or activity, especially when concerned with power and status." and "a particular set of political beliefs or principles". Is a rich aristocrat on the court of the french king who puts sticks down his throat so he can vomit and eat on while the poor starve at the gates apolitical? This aristocrat is completely minding his own business, might even be a very nice soul who never hurt a fly. In my eyes there is rarely any way to act apolitical. Even if you exile yourself in the desert that would be a choice that e.g. influences your family. This influence on your surrounding world is what makes things political, because we constantly decide how to interact with the society around us. And it doesn't matter if you hold strong political opinions or are oblivious to everything, what you do is still a part of politics (e.g. by signaling others what is commonly accepted behavior and which your (polical) values are. Do you pull the lever and kill the man or do you let the five other people die? What if they are kids? What if they are old people? What if they are black? Decisions like these are not arbitrary, they show us fundamental truths of how we think and work in relation to our surroundings, and this is – in my book – political.

pandaman 6y ago
>And this is sidetracking. Even in the original trolley problem you don't know what is or isn't going to happen. Indeed. The premise of the problem is that you believe that a certain action will cause a certain effect and the actual effects of your actions do not matter as it's an ethical and not mechanical, medical or engineering problem. >In my eyes there is rarely any way to act apolitical. It is understood. I just wanted to make you aware that in some other people eyes it's bonkers.
cmurf 6y ago
The problem is most people are spectators in their own country, not citizens. And they do have the luxury of apathy. It may very well be true they consider having an opinion on civil matters too strenuous, meaning it would take them away from the daily entertainment, the need to get attention, rather than paying attention. There's nothing to be done about it really. It's a kind of corruption and a cultural rot. George Carlin called these people dumbass motherfuckers. And I think that's diplomatic. Bullshit jobs, bullshit life, they are there to earn money only to spend it all to enrich someone else. It's so terrible they can't even be bothered to have an opinion about how civil society is organized, because really what they're living is something of a nightmare. They are so ignorant, they have anti-imagination. You give them an idea by historical reference, and it's instant annihilation, and time for more bonbons. The capacity to have a conversation just doesn't exist. And there were all kinds of ignorant kids, grew up in podunk poor towns, but still had an opinion about the civil and the uncivil. They were certainly political. And they volunteered to fight fascism and quite a lot of them died for it. Now, fascism is just name calling. It's not a real thing that exists, or could exist. It's just politics, which is also unimportant and mostly make believe. It's something that his site considers anti-intellectual. So when people intentionally refuse to think and wilfully run from fundamental truth, the situation is pretty dire. Apolitical is indistinguishable from apathy. Perhaps some part of it's cognitive dissonance, that at least suggests there's an awareness of a conflict that matters enough to ignore because it's more comfortable.