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> The question begs itself: can a democracy with no independent, local press be considered a democracy still? The press doesn't have to be a centralized, edite

> The question begs itself: can a democracy with no independent, local press be considered a democracy still? The press doesn't have to be a centralized, edited company. Citizens can report news independent and locally. Indeed, this type of journalism is resistant to the oppression of government, and the bias of media conglomerates.

bmcn2020 6y ago
> The press doesn't have to be a centralized, edited company. Citizens can report news independent and locally. Citizens can, but the quality and length would for the most part be short and incidental (outbreaks, viral videos, etc.) But in-depth investigations, into corruption, into nation-wide, critical issues, will usually require dedicated staff with budgets. Can't place that on a citizen's shoulders
- YinglingLight 6y ago
  >But in-depth investigations Long since dead in centralized Media. Not click-baity enough. Doesn't fit the attention-span they want. You still assume that the Media is motivated to share truths. They are in the business of creating narratives. I could link you to brilliant connections being made by citizens on Ghislaine Maxwell, her well-connected Father, and a number of elite families. How about Attorney General Bill Barr's Father working at the same school for the gifted with a young Jeffrey Epstein? But such investigation work would be decried as a right wing conspiracy.
atonse 6y ago
Citizens are doing this with what spare time and what spare income? And with no backing of a larger entity if they get lawsuits? There’s a need for well funded journalistic organizations everywhere. Well funded (and independent) being the key because people have to eat.
intended 6y ago
In all fields, there is work that is necessary but not fun. Money/incentives are needed to bridge that gap.
phoe-krk 6y ago
> Indeed, this type of journalism is resistant to the oppression of government, and the bias of media conglomerates. And to being self-sustaining, because no one pays the reporters to actually do their job and to verify their sources or be verified.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
So basically Twitter?
kreetx 6y ago
Yes, but do you know of any good examples? In open-source this seems to work (i.e many free contributions make up a good whole), but in journalism I'm not sure.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  The barrier of entry to journalism is much higher. We don't need to spend days hounding a politician, perusing archives, handling sources, cross-checking information and doing all the (sometimes dangerous) legwork an investigative journalist needs to do. When I write open source, my primary information sources are right at my monitor.
culturestate 6y ago
David Simon (creator of The Wire) has what I think is a good take[1] on why an organized, professional media is important: > "But democratized and independent though they may be, you do not — in my city — run into bloggers or so-called citizen journalists at City Hall, or in the courthouse hallways or at the bars and union halls where police officers gather. You do not see them consistently nurturing and then pressing sources. You do not see them holding institutions accountable on a daily basis...I'm offended to think that anyone, anywhere believes American monoliths as insulated, self-preserving, and self-justifying as police departments, school systems, legislatures, and chief executives can be held to gather facts by amateurs pursuing the task without compensation, training, or, for that matter, sufficient standing to make public officials even care who it is they're lying to or who they're withholding information from." There are, of course, very smart and well-qualified bloggers and indie journalists, but they're relatively few and far between. The institutions of journalism matter more than most people realize, if for no other reason than people have to be paid to put in the time to do the job. 1. https://votesmart.org/public-statement/422651/hearing-of-the-communications-technology-and-the-internet-subcommittee-of-the-senate-commerce-science-and-transportation-committee-the-future-of-journalism https://votesmart.org/public-statement/422651/hearing-of-the...
DFHippie 6y ago
One problem with relying on this is that it throws the door open to state-funded trolls posing as independent citizen journalists.

bmcn2020 6y ago

> The press doesn't have to be a centralized, edited company. Citizens can report news independent and locally. Citizens can, but the quality and length would for the most part be short and incidental (outbreaks, viral videos, etc.) But in-depth investigations, into corruption, into nation-wide, critical issues, will usually require dedicated staff with budgets. Can't place that on a citizen's shoulders

YinglingLight 6y ago
>But in-depth investigations Long since dead in centralized Media. Not click-baity enough. Doesn't fit the attention-span they want. You still assume that the Media is motivated to share truths. They are in the business of creating narratives. I could link you to brilliant connections being made by citizens on Ghislaine Maxwell, her well-connected Father, and a number of elite families. How about Attorney General Bill Barr's Father working at the same school for the gifted with a young Jeffrey Epstein? But such investigation work would be decried as a right wing conspiracy.

atonse 6y ago

Citizens are doing this with what spare time and what spare income? And with no backing of a larger entity if they get lawsuits? There’s a need for well funded journalistic organizations everywhere. Well funded (and independent) being the key because people have to eat.

intended 6y ago

In all fields, there is work that is necessary but not fun. Money/incentives are needed to bridge that gap.

phoe-krk 6y ago

> Indeed, this type of journalism is resistant to the oppression of government, and the bias of media conglomerates. And to being self-sustaining, because no one pays the reporters to actually do their job and to verify their sources or be verified.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

So basically Twitter?

kreetx 6y ago

Yes, but do you know of any good examples? In open-source this seems to work (i.e many free contributions make up a good whole), but in journalism I'm not sure.

rbanffy 6y ago
The barrier of entry to journalism is much higher. We don't need to spend days hounding a politician, perusing archives, handling sources, cross-checking information and doing all the (sometimes dangerous) legwork an investigative journalist needs to do. When I write open source, my primary information sources are right at my monitor.

culturestate 6y ago

David Simon (creator of The Wire) has what I think is a good take[1] on why an organized, professional media is important: > "But democratized and independent though they may be, you do not — in my city — run into bloggers or so-called citizen journalists at City Hall, or in the courthouse hallways or at the bars and union halls where police officers gather. You do not see them consistently nurturing and then pressing sources. You do not see them holding institutions accountable on a daily basis...I'm offended to think that anyone, anywhere believes American monoliths as insulated, self-preserving, and self-justifying as police departments, school systems, legislatures, and chief executives can be held to gather facts by amateurs pursuing the task without compensation, training, or, for that matter, sufficient standing to make public officials even care who it is they're lying to or who they're withholding information from." There are, of course, very smart and well-qualified bloggers and indie journalists, but they're relatively few and far between. The institutions of journalism matter more than most people realize, if for no other reason than people have to be paid to put in the time to do the job. 1. https://votesmart.org/public-statement/422651/hearing-of-the-communications-technology-and-the-internet-subcommittee-of-the-senate-commerce-science-and-transportation-committee-the-future-of-journalism https://votesmart.org/public-statement/422651/hearing-of-the...

DFHippie 6y ago

One problem with relying on this is that it throws the door open to state-funded trolls posing as independent citizen journalists.