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>No matter what, the fundamental ideas that America is built on is focused so heavily on freedom Freedom as long as you aren't threateningly critical of Americ

>No matter what, the fundamental ideas that America is built on is focused so heavily on freedom Freedom as long as you aren't threateningly critical of America. The journalist of the Syrian War who took an anti-American stance and was targetted by American drone strikes would prove otherwise: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

stopachka 6y ago
The fact that an article exists, and it’s possible for him to sue, is a right and luxury afforded to us by this American belief in freedom.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  His suit was dismissed by the government because having to defend themselves against the accusation would disclose state secrets. The right to sue only matters if you can meaningfully exercise it... And your standards are ridiculous. If anyone anywhere was able to show you a story of the US trying to kill someone for committing ideological heresy then the very fact they could tell you the story is proof that Amrrica believes in ideological freedom? You see the contradiction surely...
  - stopachka 6y ago
    I don’t quite see it, because at least in the part of the world I was raised, I can tell you that someone talking about this on the news would have sounded ridiculous. I do agree that America has never been a perfect bastion of freedom, and there are large struggles today. It definitely saddens me to see that. Yet, this is the whole point of the idea that our ties to freedom are fundamental — that some group in the U.S _will_ disagree with authorities, that even if a suit is dropped, they may continue the fight. It’s not ideal that we have to fight, but the fact that we can is a freedom that is very rare.
    - notsureaboutpg 6y ago
      I was raised in such a world too. I get what you're saying. But like everything there is a middle ground. US has good press freedom, but they also, like every country, will kill you if you "blaspheme" against them too much. There's a balance between freedom and security. And what the US deems "safe" and "unsafe" is always important to keep in mind
lm28469 6y ago
You don't even have to look that far, there are secret police officers using unmarked rental cars to arrest protesters without telling them who they are and why they are being arrested. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/17/portland-protests-federal-officers-george-floyd https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/17/portland-pro... https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1283436911307218948 https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1283436911307218948
- threatofrain 6y ago
  How many bad apples makes a police black site? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli...
- philwelch 6y ago
  The guy they’re “arresting” also doesn’t say anything, and is extremely compliant for someone who’s allegedly an anti-police protester. I believe that is a video of an informant extraction.
  - lm28469 6y ago
    > I believe that is a video of an informant extraction. It could very well be but it isn't an isolated thing (as far as I can tell) and it's in line with everything that happened in the last weeks/months in the US. In absence of any proofs I wouldn't side with the law enforcement by default, but you're right to question it.
    - philwelch 6y ago
      > it isn't an isolated thing (as far as I can tell) and it's in line with everything that happened in the last weeks/months in the US. If that’s the case, then why is this very strange and anomalous video the one thing people keep talking about when there are much more clear-cut examples such as Lafayette Park? More importantly, why is that the one data point that people are building the narrative around and saying, “well, it isn’t an isolated incident”.
mc32 6y ago
And while you are aghast at that, I’d have ask if you’d be aghast at the people who bully and gaslight and threaten individuals who are critical of some aspects of progressivism. I ask because if we ever had an “antifa” government I can be almost certain the abuses would escalate to heights we dare not imagine.
- deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
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- tenuousemphasis 6y ago
  "Yes I understand you're outraged by killing people with drone strikes, but think of the people whose companies didn't want anything to do with them after they said something nasty!"
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  I also am not a fan of cancel culture or the sort of progressive Victorianism we see these days. Sure an antifa government would suck. But that's just bad manners, these are people being assassinated because the government disagrees with them.
  - mc32 6y ago
    I wouldn’t be so optimistic. Level headed people in the French Revolution, the liberals in the Russian revolution, they had some rather horrible things happen. Done by very lucid people. You can’t say that was then. It’s hard to escape that fate.

stopachka 6y ago

The fact that an article exists, and it’s possible for him to sue, is a right and luxury afforded to us by this American belief in freedom.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
His suit was dismissed by the government because having to defend themselves against the accusation would disclose state secrets. The right to sue only matters if you can meaningfully exercise it... And your standards are ridiculous. If anyone anywhere was able to show you a story of the US trying to kill someone for committing ideological heresy then the very fact they could tell you the story is proof that Amrrica believes in ideological freedom? You see the contradiction surely...
- stopachka 6y ago
  I don’t quite see it, because at least in the part of the world I was raised, I can tell you that someone talking about this on the news would have sounded ridiculous. I do agree that America has never been a perfect bastion of freedom, and there are large struggles today. It definitely saddens me to see that. Yet, this is the whole point of the idea that our ties to freedom are fundamental — that some group in the U.S _will_ disagree with authorities, that even if a suit is dropped, they may continue the fight. It’s not ideal that we have to fight, but the fact that we can is a freedom that is very rare.
  - notsureaboutpg 6y ago
    I was raised in such a world too. I get what you're saying. But like everything there is a middle ground. US has good press freedom, but they also, like every country, will kill you if you "blaspheme" against them too much. There's a balance between freedom and security. And what the US deems "safe" and "unsafe" is always important to keep in mind

lm28469 6y ago

You don't even have to look that far, there are secret police officers using unmarked rental cars to arrest protesters without telling them who they are and why they are being arrested. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/17/portland-protests-federal-officers-george-floyd https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/17/portland-pro... https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1283436911307218948 https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1283436911307218948

threatofrain 6y ago
How many bad apples makes a police black site? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli...
philwelch 6y ago
The guy they’re “arresting” also doesn’t say anything, and is extremely compliant for someone who’s allegedly an anti-police protester. I believe that is a video of an informant extraction.
- lm28469 6y ago
  > I believe that is a video of an informant extraction. It could very well be but it isn't an isolated thing (as far as I can tell) and it's in line with everything that happened in the last weeks/months in the US. In absence of any proofs I wouldn't side with the law enforcement by default, but you're right to question it.
  - philwelch 6y ago
    > it isn't an isolated thing (as far as I can tell) and it's in line with everything that happened in the last weeks/months in the US. If that’s the case, then why is this very strange and anomalous video the one thing people keep talking about when there are much more clear-cut examples such as Lafayette Park? More importantly, why is that the one data point that people are building the narrative around and saying, “well, it isn’t an isolated incident”.

mc32 6y ago

And while you are aghast at that, I’d have ask if you’d be aghast at the people who bully and gaslight and threaten individuals who are critical of some aspects of progressivism. I ask because if we ever had an “antifa” government I can be almost certain the abuses would escalate to heights we dare not imagine.

deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tenuousemphasis 6y ago
"Yes I understand you're outraged by killing people with drone strikes, but think of the people whose companies didn't want anything to do with them after they said something nasty!"
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
I also am not a fan of cancel culture or the sort of progressive Victorianism we see these days. Sure an antifa government would suck. But that's just bad manners, these are people being assassinated because the government disagrees with them.
- mc32 6y ago
  I wouldn’t be so optimistic. Level headed people in the French Revolution, the liberals in the Russian revolution, they had some rather horrible things happen. Done by very lucid people. You can’t say that was then. It’s hard to escape that fate.