5 ms·

The problem is, people used to have non-gender, non-racial terms for people. For example, a person might be called an 'asshole' or 'bonehead', and this could b

The problem is, people used to have non-gender, non-racial terms for people. For example, a person might be called an 'asshole' or 'bonehead', and this could be a person of any colour, any sex, age, etc. Yet now, it seems all sorts are labeling people based upon sex, colour, ethnic background, etc. It is, quite literally, the definition of sexual, racial, age discrimination. It is linking "external characteristic" with "way a person acts". I don't care what anyone's political stance is, but if you are using terms like 'Karen', you are 100% contributing to sexism, racism, etc. Just call someone what they are. "Asshole" has worked fine for millennia.

xvedejas 6y ago
I agree that the term "Karen" has its genesis as an insult, and one designed to effectively aggravate the people it describes. It's not surprising to me that it's a word people reach for when they want the impact that words like "asshole" have lost. I don't know why you would call someone an "asshole" if you want to be genuinely mean. "Asshole" is as common as salt in our everyday language, but "Karen" is the spice.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> Just call someone what they are. "Asshole" has worked fine for millennia. Except that Karens and assholes are different. Karens can be assholes, sure, but a Karen is a specific type of asshole. Football hooligans may be assholes but they're generally not Karens. It means something different, and there isn't another word that means the same thing.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist. Here's a few other such terms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs A lot of these terms link specific behaviour, to specific ethnic/sex/cultural groups. I guess they're OK too? I find it utterly disgusting, that some people think some things are 'one way'. That racism is OK, but only "one way". Sexism is OK, but only against men. The list goes on. Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK? No? Then why is it OK with 'Karen'? You'd don't cure social ills by creating more of them. "An eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind." is highly accurate, I think.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    For what it is worth I have seen Karen used as aggressively agender and aracially like referring to an obnoxious customer who was a black man as a "Karen".
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen Maybe you're seen this. I haven't, and many people seem to have the specific definitions listed above.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist. Well then it's a good thing that it can. > Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK? That is a racial slur. Its meaning is defined by race. A Karen is defined by behavior.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    An elderly Asian guy can totally be a Karen. We don't have another single word at the moment to convey the same behaviour in a different way. You can propose one and try to convert the usage though.
TeaDrunk 6y ago
From what I understand the specific behavior is actually and intrinsically linked to the idea of a white woman in America and has historically existed for quite a while among black circles (from the 1800s at least). Discussing Karen as if it’s new belies the actual history of it. [0] 0. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891177904/whats-in-a-karen https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891177904/whats-in-a-karen
- bbarnett 6y ago
  What a weird assertion, when you link to an article that asserts something entirely different. The above NPR, states that a Karen is a new label, started in the 2010s (which is just last year, even). It also shows how the Karen label is different from other, prior labels. It delineates how a Becky is different, a "Miss Ann" is different. We've historically had labels like this for people, which are racially linked. But this is 2020, this is a NEW label, and other NEW labels keep popping up. We need to collectively STOP this. No more racist, sexist, ageist, anything-ist labels. It's all wrong. (Not saying you were defending label use... just clarifying my position)
  - TeaDrunk 6y ago
    I’m arguing that the idea of a karen is not new, sorry to be unclear.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs Slurs are not new. And as I mentioned, what you showed were not Karens, but 'white women who act poorly in certain ways'. "Kaben" has unique connotations, a specific meaning. While I agree that "white women have had slurs" before 'Karen', I'm going to have to disagree that it's germane here.

xvedejas 6y ago

I agree that the term "Karen" has its genesis as an insult, and one designed to effectively aggravate the people it describes. It's not surprising to me that it's a word people reach for when they want the impact that words like "asshole" have lost. I don't know why you would call someone an "asshole" if you want to be genuinely mean. "Asshole" is as common as salt in our everyday language, but "Karen" is the spice.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> Just call someone what they are. "Asshole" has worked fine for millennia. Except that Karens and assholes are different. Karens can be assholes, sure, but a Karen is a specific type of asshole. Football hooligans may be assholes but they're generally not Karens. It means something different, and there isn't another word that means the same thing.

bbarnett 6y ago
Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist. Here's a few other such terms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs A lot of these terms link specific behaviour, to specific ethnic/sex/cultural groups. I guess they're OK too? I find it utterly disgusting, that some people think some things are 'one way'. That racism is OK, but only "one way". Sexism is OK, but only against men. The list goes on. Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK? No? Then why is it OK with 'Karen'? You'd don't cure social ills by creating more of them. "An eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind." is highly accurate, I think.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  For what it is worth I have seen Karen used as aggressively agender and aracially like referring to an obnoxious customer who was a black man as a "Karen".
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen Maybe you're seen this. I haven't, and many people seem to have the specific definitions listed above.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > Unless a 'Karen' can be an elderly aging Asian man, it's sexist, ageish and racist. Well then it's a good thing that it can. > Let's see how long you last, if you see a lazy black person (they exist, like lazy people exist everywhere)... and you spout out "Bluegum!" Is that OK? That is a racial slur. Its meaning is defined by race. A Karen is defined by behavior.
- viraptor 6y ago
  An elderly Asian guy can totally be a Karen. We don't have another single word at the moment to convey the same behaviour in a different way. You can propose one and try to convert the usage though.

TeaDrunk 6y ago

From what I understand the specific behavior is actually and intrinsically linked to the idea of a white woman in America and has historically existed for quite a while among black circles (from the 1800s at least). Discussing Karen as if it’s new belies the actual history of it. [0] 0. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891177904/whats-in-a-karen https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/891177904/whats-in-a-karen

bbarnett 6y ago
What a weird assertion, when you link to an article that asserts something entirely different. The above NPR, states that a Karen is a new label, started in the 2010s (which is just last year, even). It also shows how the Karen label is different from other, prior labels. It delineates how a Becky is different, a "Miss Ann" is different. We've historically had labels like this for people, which are racially linked. But this is 2020, this is a NEW label, and other NEW labels keep popping up. We need to collectively STOP this. No more racist, sexist, ageist, anything-ist labels. It's all wrong. (Not saying you were defending label use... just clarifying my position)
- TeaDrunk 6y ago
  I’m arguing that the idea of a karen is not new, sorry to be unclear.
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs Slurs are not new. And as I mentioned, what you showed were not Karens, but 'white women who act poorly in certain ways'. "Kaben" has unique connotations, a specific meaning. While I agree that "white women have had slurs" before 'Karen', I'm going to have to disagree that it's germane here.