7 ms·

Here's a crazy idea: no zoning. Let people decide what they want to do.

function_seven 6y ago
That is crazy. I do not want a concrete plant to open next to my house. Or a Yoko Ono Scream Therapy franchise :) But yeah, the insane detail that many cities have in their zoning plans is stifling. The link[7] monkeypizza included elsewhere in this thread is what I'd like to see as the norm [7] http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
- fellowniusmonk 6y ago
  Eh, I hate the city myself but people love Houston. Seems like 0 zoning isn't really an appreciable problem.
baggy_trough 6y ago
What I wanted to do was move to a place that had rules which would keep the neighborhood the way I like.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  If you're not paying neighbors to keep their land the way you like, why should you have any say in that?
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    Note that they have a say in what you do with your land, too. Is it OK for someone to buy the house next door, and build a cafe? What about a night club, which has loud music and closes at 4am? How about a rendering plant? Or installing a large propane storage facility? Is there nothing you'd consider unsafe, unwanted, beside the house you just paid $500k for? Which is now worth $200k, and makes it horrid to live there? These laws, like all laws, are necessary. Where the problem sits, is when they go too far, or not far enough. There is a sweet spot for everything!
  - jdmichal 6y ago
    That is a pathological way of thinking about it. You could also think of it as a collective pact.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Poking into peoples' property for minutiae is also pathological, and plenty of Americans have horror stories about HOAs fining them for silly things like the height of the lawn not meeting regulations. It's one thing if you can opt out of a collective pact by picking another jurisdiction, but local busybodies are so widely spread that land legally allowed to be developed even in a short but dense, traditional American style, is so scarce that it fetches a premium, so now there is nothing between the extremes of "quiet cookie cutter suburb far from everything" and "busy noisy neighborhood of tower blocks."
  - baggy_trough 6y ago
    If I moved into a neighborhood that had rules that I liked, and now you want to replace it with a free-for-all, should you have to pay me?
conductr 6y ago
Houston is like this. I like it, but I grew up there, many people are so scared that it means a oil refinery or something could pop up next door one day but that stuff rarely happens. The market naturally seems to fill most of the voids in terms of demand, so it’s not like you have to go far to find a liquor store or something specific. That said, we built our cities in Texas for cars. My adult life has mostly been in Dallas which is very different. I’ve attempted land development myself so know more than a layman but Dallas and especially surrounding suburbs have what feels like an insane level of zoning. I say “attempted” because there have been a couple dozen times where I see a building or raw land parcel and feel it would be perfect for some use. Do some research and find it wouldn’t be allowed. On some occasions I have a specific aesthetic (tasteful, but I like unique/artistic structures) that I’d like, only to find the town requires all buildings to be made/finished of no less than 80% red brick or paint 1 of 6 predetermined shades of brown. It’s killed my endeavors every time and honestly, makes the DFW area an architecturally soulless Place to be IMO. Just recently, maybe 2018, the state banned these local aesthetic requirements. But I think locally it’s still a fight to get something too far from the city planners vision built.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  ...paint 1 of 6 predetermined shades of brown. You've answered some questions I've had about Dallas...

That is crazy. I do not want a concrete plant to open next to my house. Or a Yoko Ono Scream Therapy franchise :) But yeah, the insane detail that many cities have in their zoning plans is stifling. The link[7] monkeypizza included elsewhere in this thread is what I'd like to see as the norm [7] http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

fellowniusmonk 6y ago
Eh, I hate the city myself but people love Houston. Seems like 0 zoning isn't really an appreciable problem.

baggy_trough 6y ago

What I wanted to do was move to a place that had rules which would keep the neighborhood the way I like.

bobthepanda 6y ago
If you're not paying neighbors to keep their land the way you like, why should you have any say in that?
- bbarnett 6y ago
  Note that they have a say in what you do with your land, too. Is it OK for someone to buy the house next door, and build a cafe? What about a night club, which has loud music and closes at 4am? How about a rendering plant? Or installing a large propane storage facility? Is there nothing you'd consider unsafe, unwanted, beside the house you just paid $500k for? Which is now worth $200k, and makes it horrid to live there? These laws, like all laws, are necessary. Where the problem sits, is when they go too far, or not far enough. There is a sweet spot for everything!
- jdmichal 6y ago
  That is a pathological way of thinking about it. You could also think of it as a collective pact.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Poking into peoples' property for minutiae is also pathological, and plenty of Americans have horror stories about HOAs fining them for silly things like the height of the lawn not meeting regulations. It's one thing if you can opt out of a collective pact by picking another jurisdiction, but local busybodies are so widely spread that land legally allowed to be developed even in a short but dense, traditional American style, is so scarce that it fetches a premium, so now there is nothing between the extremes of "quiet cookie cutter suburb far from everything" and "busy noisy neighborhood of tower blocks."
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  If I moved into a neighborhood that had rules that I liked, and now you want to replace it with a free-for-all, should you have to pay me?

conductr 6y ago

Houston is like this. I like it, but I grew up there, many people are so scared that it means a oil refinery or something could pop up next door one day but that stuff rarely happens. The market naturally seems to fill most of the voids in terms of demand, so it’s not like you have to go far to find a liquor store or something specific. That said, we built our cities in Texas for cars. My adult life has mostly been in Dallas which is very different. I’ve attempted land development myself so know more than a layman but Dallas and especially surrounding suburbs have what feels like an insane level of zoning. I say “attempted” because there have been a couple dozen times where I see a building or raw land parcel and feel it would be perfect for some use. Do some research and find it wouldn’t be allowed. On some occasions I have a specific aesthetic (tasteful, but I like unique/artistic structures) that I’d like, only to find the town requires all buildings to be made/finished of no less than 80% red brick or paint 1 of 6 predetermined shades of brown. It’s killed my endeavors every time and honestly, makes the DFW area an architecturally soulless Place to be IMO. Just recently, maybe 2018, the state banned these local aesthetic requirements. But I think locally it’s still a fight to get something too far from the city planners vision built.

jessaustin 6y ago
...paint 1 of 6 predetermined shades of brown. You've answered some questions I've had about Dallas...