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Japan also has strong privacy laws, extending into excessive and absurd defamation laws. For example, if you have piles of proof of someone committing a crime

by fiblye 6y ago

Japan also has strong privacy laws, extending into excessive and absurd defamation laws. For example, if you have piles of proof of someone committing a crime like sexual assault and the cops refuse to take it seriously, you can reliably post it on Twitter these days and people will take it seriously. In Japan, the person who committed the crime can reliably sue you for ruining their reputation and win. Stating actual plain facts about a person that harms their image on any public platform will land you in trouble, unless it’s something that’s clearly in the public interest to know (like if a company is putting arsenic in their baby food). It’s likely one reason why incidents of work harassment and abuse only become public after someone kills themselves.

waon 6y ago
This seems like FUD. How are the laws itself “excess and absurd” compared to rest of the democratic world? It’s also strange to assert Japan has “strong privacy laws” when the exact opposite is happening in this very article we’re discussing. > In Japan, the person who committed the (sexual) crime can reliably sue you for ruining their reputation and win Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon thing outside of Japan [1]. And to be fair, you can’t just put a blanket ban on defamation lawsuits because it’s not wrong to sue for defamation if the allegation of sexual misconduct is in fact false. I don’t believe the majority of them to be the case, but ultimately, it’s for the courts to decide. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/arts/defamation-me-too.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/arts/defamation-me-too.ht... > Stating actual plain facts about a person that harms their image on any public platform will land you in trouble, unless it’s something that’s clearly in the public interest to know Whoa. This the whole point of having defamation laws. Would you rather live in a world where every embarrassing details about your life can be published online?
- fenomas 6y ago
  > Whoa. This the whole point of having defamation laws. Defamation laws normally deal with disseminating false information, not embarrassing information. True statements cannot be defamatory in many/most legal systems, no matter how much they harm someone's reputation.
  - waon 6y ago
    The topic was about Japanese defamation laws. Outside Japan, privacy laws would cover these cases. Also note that facts that “harm someone's reputation” isn’t indicative of illegal or even immoral conduct. For example, having caught the COVID19 disease might harm one’s reputation, but it doesn’t make one a bad person however true it is.
- fiblye 6y ago
  That’s not the point of defamation laws. If someone assaults you and you post a video on twitter, most first world countries will use that as evidence against the person who assaulted you. In Japan, it’s perfectly legal to record someone, but making the fact that the person is dangerous and not in police custody will get you in trouble, and the person who assaulted you will use the video against you. Defamation is generally globally defined to be false statements made with the intent to harm someone’s reputation. In Japan, full context, factual representations are treated as just about as bad as a false claim.
  - waon 6y ago
    > That’s not the point of defamation laws. So Japanese defamation laws were designed to facilitate criminals, is that what you're suggesting? There surely are many problems with the political and legal system in Japan, but I think it's beyond ridiculous to assert that the law was created with the intent to facilitate criminals. The most likely explanation is that it's designed to prevent people from exposing every enbarassing details about others. Do note that "embarrassing" doesn't mean "criminal" here. > In Japan, it’s perfectly legal to record someone Slightly off-topic, but I don't believe it's that simple. People do have to respect each other's privacy. > but making the fact that the person is dangerous and not in police custody will get you in trouble, and the person who assaulted you will use the video against you. Not all video evidence is actual proof that a crime has been committed. If it didn't lead to convictions, then it's not surprising that you'd get in trouble for disemminating it as actual proof. And let me remind you that the Japanese legal system is notorious for its startling high conviction rate. Another issue I have with your assertion is that video evidence of crime is often disemminated by the Japanese media way before it reaches the courts [1][2]. Some of these are picked directly from social media. Yet no one ever got in trouble for it, contradicting your statement. So far, you've provided zero evidence that what you said is commonplace in Japan. [1]: https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/08/5209ea0c6818-road-rage-suspect-arrested-after-dashboard-camera-records-assault.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/08/5209ea0c6818-road... [2]: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/04/national/kobe-elementary-school-embroiled-bullying-scandal-entrusted-teachers-turn-one/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/04/national/kobe-e...

by fiblye 6y ago

waon 6y ago

This seems like FUD. How are the laws itself “excess and absurd” compared to rest of the democratic world? It’s also strange to assert Japan has “strong privacy laws” when the exact opposite is happening in this very article we’re discussing. > In Japan, the person who committed the (sexual) crime can reliably sue you for ruining their reputation and win Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon thing outside of Japan [1]. And to be fair, you can’t just put a blanket ban on defamation lawsuits because it’s not wrong to sue for defamation if the allegation of sexual misconduct is in fact false. I don’t believe the majority of them to be the case, but ultimately, it’s for the courts to decide. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/arts/defamation-me-too.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/arts/defamation-me-too.ht... > Stating actual plain facts about a person that harms their image on any public platform will land you in trouble, unless it’s something that’s clearly in the public interest to know Whoa. This the whole point of having defamation laws. Would you rather live in a world where every embarrassing details about your life can be published online?

fenomas 6y ago
> Whoa. This the whole point of having defamation laws. Defamation laws normally deal with disseminating false information, not embarrassing information. True statements cannot be defamatory in many/most legal systems, no matter how much they harm someone's reputation.
- waon 6y ago
  The topic was about Japanese defamation laws. Outside Japan, privacy laws would cover these cases. Also note that facts that “harm someone's reputation” isn’t indicative of illegal or even immoral conduct. For example, having caught the COVID19 disease might harm one’s reputation, but it doesn’t make one a bad person however true it is.
fiblye 6y ago
That’s not the point of defamation laws. If someone assaults you and you post a video on twitter, most first world countries will use that as evidence against the person who assaulted you. In Japan, it’s perfectly legal to record someone, but making the fact that the person is dangerous and not in police custody will get you in trouble, and the person who assaulted you will use the video against you. Defamation is generally globally defined to be false statements made with the intent to harm someone’s reputation. In Japan, full context, factual representations are treated as just about as bad as a false claim.
- waon 6y ago
  > That’s not the point of defamation laws. So Japanese defamation laws were designed to facilitate criminals, is that what you're suggesting? There surely are many problems with the political and legal system in Japan, but I think it's beyond ridiculous to assert that the law was created with the intent to facilitate criminals. The most likely explanation is that it's designed to prevent people from exposing every enbarassing details about others. Do note that "embarrassing" doesn't mean "criminal" here. > In Japan, it’s perfectly legal to record someone Slightly off-topic, but I don't believe it's that simple. People do have to respect each other's privacy. > but making the fact that the person is dangerous and not in police custody will get you in trouble, and the person who assaulted you will use the video against you. Not all video evidence is actual proof that a crime has been committed. If it didn't lead to convictions, then it's not surprising that you'd get in trouble for disemminating it as actual proof. And let me remind you that the Japanese legal system is notorious for its startling high conviction rate. Another issue I have with your assertion is that video evidence of crime is often disemminated by the Japanese media way before it reaches the courts [1][2]. Some of these are picked directly from social media. Yet no one ever got in trouble for it, contradicting your statement. So far, you've provided zero evidence that what you said is commonplace in Japan. [1]: https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/08/5209ea0c6818-road-rage-suspect-arrested-after-dashboard-camera-records-assault.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/08/5209ea0c6818-road... [2]: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/04/national/kobe-elementary-school-embroiled-bullying-scandal-entrusted-teachers-turn-one/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/04/national/kobe-e...