5 ms·

When I visited Japan, I went to an izakaya with room for maybe 9 people in it, it was smaller than my living room at home. I was hungry and I saw the sign light

by rland 6y ago

When I visited Japan, I went to an izakaya with room for maybe 9 people in it, it was smaller than my living room at home. I was hungry and I saw the sign lighting the alley about 40 yards off the main road. I was thinking at the time, if I lived in that area, you bet I'd be there a couple times a week to talk to my neighbors. I wanted to ask those inside if they were all neighbors, because they seemed to know each other and the barman well. It felt almost intimidating, since I don't know any Japanese, but of course Japanese hospitality is top-notch.

0xCMP 6y ago
Japan is what made me realize how this is the answer. Zoning and making businesses possible inside neighborhoods makes areas much more walkable.
davesque 6y ago
Yes, this! This is one of the stupid-simple reasons I love traveling in Japan.
jkhdigital 6y ago
I had the exact same thoughts upon reading this article, having spent quite a bit of time in Japan. Businesses are liberally sprinkled all over residential neighborhoods, from bars, cafes and grocers to home electronics and repair shops. The density (and corresponding walkability) of Japanese cities is a big factor that supports this kind of development. The armchair economist in me wants to theorize that this might be a contributing factor in Japan’s exceptionally low unemployment rate: the ease of starting a micro business from your doorstep.
- ehnto 6y ago
  There is another quirk to Japan that seems to make this work so well, and that's how quiet it can be. I am sure there are exceptions, but for the most part even in packed areas with dozens of people walking the street, it is mostly quiet. I think low car density plays a pretty big role in lowering the the overall sound levels, but there must be more to it than that. It was surreal at times.
  - sparsely 6y ago
    Cars are incredibly loud, as are delivery trucks. Both tend to be smaller in Japan, and there is a much lower car density in particular in most urban areas.
- prawn 6y ago
  In Australia there'd be concerns about parking, neighbours would complain about customers dominating street parking, etc. Or if it was a small restaurant/bars there'd be fears of drunken louts as we collectively have an alcohol problem. It's a shame because there are lots of originally-corner-store-type properties which have been used as houses and shut off from the street. Ideally, they'd be quiet businesses like architects or studios or galleries or a classy deli or anything like that, but they're effectively boarded up and used as another living room by the occupants. On the alcohol subject, the smaller the place, the fewer problems typically occur. Small bars rarely attract crowds big enough to have fights or get rolling as aggressive meat-markets.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    AUS did not seem to have a crazy bad alcohol problem to this US person. I've not seen the summerys though(? when all the HS grads go to the Surf Coast, etc?). We'd go out on Fridays to the pubs near Melbourne and it seemed pretty ok. There was a guy with a ram though, that was strange. However, my basis of 'bad' is something more like State Street in Madison after a winning home game where hundreds of people literally cannot stand up straight.
SECProto 6y ago
Japan uses inclusive zoning, and most urban areas are zoned for high density residential/commercial. The only zoning that is truly exclusive is industrial
oftenwrong 6y ago
The cities in Japan are, of course, walkable in the extreme, but what really impressed me there was the suburbs and rural villages. Even deep in the countryside many people still can visit local businesses without a car. I think it is not a coincidence that it is so common there to see children walking or biking on their own to school.
- BurningCycles 6y ago
  Yes, correlation is not causation and all that, but when I was there I was struck by how very little obesity there was. I later learned that Japan has the highest life expectancy in the world.
- tlear 6y ago
  It is standard for kids to walk to school. Every elementary school student does it starting grade 1. If there is a taiphoon passing or blizzard you can give your grade 1 kid a ride. Otherwise it is looked down upon
- m_mueller 6y ago
  Btw. the US is probably more of an exception when it comes to children being driven to school. Swiss kids tend to walk themselves from age 5 to 6 upward, schools are usually within 30min of a child's walk. But Japan is certainly special thanks to very liberal zoning laws. Even in rural areas it's common to find warehouses and small shops right next to or beneath homes. Europe's laws are somewhere between Japan and the US, and so is the walkability. Turns out, just allowing humans to try things will make markets solve this issue.
monkeypizza 6y ago
Excellent blog about Japanese zoning: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
- tkgally 6y ago
  That's a good reference. In adding to zoning, there are other factors that contribute to the large number of viable tiny businesses here in Japan. One is that small shops aren't bound by as strict accessibility and fire regulations as in some other countries. A restaurant or bar, for example, that seats no more than a dozen customers and is staffed by just one or two people will often have a correspondingly tiny restroom that could not be accessed by someone in a wheelchair; the shop itself might not be wheelchair accessible, either. And often there is only one exit, the front door, even for shops on upper floors of buildings. In many cases, I suspect, adding requirements for wheelchair accessibility and a separate fire exit would increase the construction costs and unproductive floor space so much that the shop would no longer be economically viable. I was a freelancer here for twenty years. While I didn't run a shop, I did run my business out of my home, and my impression was that it was much easier to do that in Japan—in terms of taxes, relations with neighbors, etc.—than it would have been in the United States, where I was born.
  - squidpie 6y ago
    Obviously the specific implementation of accessibility within private home-front businesses is a complicated issue. However, I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine, especially considering how particularly beneficial such shops would be. I am not here to debate or offer specific solutions, but I want to encourage able bodied folks to take the following axiom into account when discussing accessibility. disregarding material constraints, disabled people should be able to access public spaces and attend public events.
    - tkgally 6y ago
      > I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine I wasn't suggesting a solution. I was describing the situation in Japan and offering two explanations for why that situation might be as it is.
hinkley 6y ago
There was a stone carver, two tofu makers, a convenience store or two, a bath house with a tiny laundromat on the side (with HE units 20 years before we got them in the States), a pachinko parlor, and who knows how many other businesses my illiterate ass couldn't identify on, or just off, the route from the suburban Tokyo apartment I was a guest in and the train station. If I got up at a decent hour, I would hear the plink plink of chisel on stone, and then the sound of the propane torch browning the tofu as I walked by.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
bezmenov 6y ago
The worst part of visiting Japan is it spoils your enjoyment of every other destination thereafter.
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  Lol, can’t talk about the NY subway with my New Yorker wife. “I mean, I guess if you consider it compared to the rest of the US, it’s a good system…”
tayo42 6y ago
> since I don't know any Japanese, but of course Japanese hospitality is top-notch I'm actually really surprised you're saying this. Maybe your Asian? There were a few izakaya I wandered into and got welcomed with a harsh no gaijin. I loved most of my trip to Japan (Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka) but that was jarring and off putting.
- tlear 6y ago
  It is not Asian/non Asian thing. It is language thing. Some shops do not want to serve you if they can’t speak language. Uncomfortable for them, you and other customers (that is their thinking), they might not even have menu you can understand and they speak no English except Hi bye It is also possible you wondered into a snack shop which is kind of like hostess bar but not. Basically part of the service is a conversation which is hard to do if you do not speak the language.
vmception 6y ago
That happened to me in golden dai, I went on a rainy sad and sketchy night, and the people in the tiny restuarant were just the happiest and curious, they could have been tourists from another part of Japan though, who knows I mean Japanese can keep to themselves too But the point is that the intimidate, accessible nature has other redeeming qualities
TheAdamist 6y ago
Some that size in japan have earned 3 Michelin stars, as jiro dreams of sushi famously did, before the stars were withdrawn due to lack of public access.
gyc 6y ago
Your description reminds me a lot of the restaurant in Midnight Diner.

by rland 6y ago

0xCMP 6y ago

Japan is what made me realize how this is the answer. Zoning and making businesses possible inside neighborhoods makes areas much more walkable.

davesque 6y ago

Yes, this! This is one of the stupid-simple reasons I love traveling in Japan.

jkhdigital 6y ago

I had the exact same thoughts upon reading this article, having spent quite a bit of time in Japan. Businesses are liberally sprinkled all over residential neighborhoods, from bars, cafes and grocers to home electronics and repair shops. The density (and corresponding walkability) of Japanese cities is a big factor that supports this kind of development. The armchair economist in me wants to theorize that this might be a contributing factor in Japan’s exceptionally low unemployment rate: the ease of starting a micro business from your doorstep.

ehnto 6y ago
There is another quirk to Japan that seems to make this work so well, and that's how quiet it can be. I am sure there are exceptions, but for the most part even in packed areas with dozens of people walking the street, it is mostly quiet. I think low car density plays a pretty big role in lowering the the overall sound levels, but there must be more to it than that. It was surreal at times.
- sparsely 6y ago
  Cars are incredibly loud, as are delivery trucks. Both tend to be smaller in Japan, and there is a much lower car density in particular in most urban areas.
prawn 6y ago
In Australia there'd be concerns about parking, neighbours would complain about customers dominating street parking, etc. Or if it was a small restaurant/bars there'd be fears of drunken louts as we collectively have an alcohol problem. It's a shame because there are lots of originally-corner-store-type properties which have been used as houses and shut off from the street. Ideally, they'd be quiet businesses like architects or studios or galleries or a classy deli or anything like that, but they're effectively boarded up and used as another living room by the occupants. On the alcohol subject, the smaller the place, the fewer problems typically occur. Small bars rarely attract crowds big enough to have fights or get rolling as aggressive meat-markets.
- Balgair 6y ago
  AUS did not seem to have a crazy bad alcohol problem to this US person. I've not seen the summerys though(? when all the HS grads go to the Surf Coast, etc?). We'd go out on Fridays to the pubs near Melbourne and it seemed pretty ok. There was a guy with a ram though, that was strange. However, my basis of 'bad' is something more like State Street in Madison after a winning home game where hundreds of people literally cannot stand up straight.

SECProto 6y ago

Japan uses inclusive zoning, and most urban areas are zoned for high density residential/commercial. The only zoning that is truly exclusive is industrial

oftenwrong 6y ago

The cities in Japan are, of course, walkable in the extreme, but what really impressed me there was the suburbs and rural villages. Even deep in the countryside many people still can visit local businesses without a car. I think it is not a coincidence that it is so common there to see children walking or biking on their own to school.

BurningCycles 6y ago
Yes, correlation is not causation and all that, but when I was there I was struck by how very little obesity there was. I later learned that Japan has the highest life expectancy in the world.
tlear 6y ago
It is standard for kids to walk to school. Every elementary school student does it starting grade 1. If there is a taiphoon passing or blizzard you can give your grade 1 kid a ride. Otherwise it is looked down upon
m_mueller 6y ago
Btw. the US is probably more of an exception when it comes to children being driven to school. Swiss kids tend to walk themselves from age 5 to 6 upward, schools are usually within 30min of a child's walk. But Japan is certainly special thanks to very liberal zoning laws. Even in rural areas it's common to find warehouses and small shops right next to or beneath homes. Europe's laws are somewhere between Japan and the US, and so is the walkability. Turns out, just allowing humans to try things will make markets solve this issue.

monkeypizza 6y ago

Excellent blog about Japanese zoning: http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

tkgally 6y ago
That's a good reference. In adding to zoning, there are other factors that contribute to the large number of viable tiny businesses here in Japan. One is that small shops aren't bound by as strict accessibility and fire regulations as in some other countries. A restaurant or bar, for example, that seats no more than a dozen customers and is staffed by just one or two people will often have a correspondingly tiny restroom that could not be accessed by someone in a wheelchair; the shop itself might not be wheelchair accessible, either. And often there is only one exit, the front door, even for shops on upper floors of buildings. In many cases, I suspect, adding requirements for wheelchair accessibility and a separate fire exit would increase the construction costs and unproductive floor space so much that the shop would no longer be economically viable. I was a freelancer here for twenty years. While I didn't run a shop, I did run my business out of my home, and my impression was that it was much easier to do that in Japan—in terms of taxes, relations with neighbors, etc.—than it would have been in the United States, where I was born.
- squidpie 6y ago
  Obviously the specific implementation of accessibility within private home-front businesses is a complicated issue. However, I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine, especially considering how particularly beneficial such shops would be. I am not here to debate or offer specific solutions, but I want to encourage able bodied folks to take the following axiom into account when discussing accessibility. disregarding material constraints, disabled people should be able to access public spaces and attend public events.
  - tkgally 6y ago
    > I find your suggested solution of excluding disabled people from accessing small local shops rather asinine I wasn't suggesting a solution. I was describing the situation in Japan and offering two explanations for why that situation might be as it is.

hinkley 6y ago

There was a stone carver, two tofu makers, a convenience store or two, a bath house with a tiny laundromat on the side (with HE units 20 years before we got them in the States), a pachinko parlor, and who knows how many other businesses my illiterate ass couldn't identify on, or just off, the route from the suburban Tokyo apartment I was a guest in and the train station. If I got up at a decent hour, I would hear the plink plink of chisel on stone, and then the sound of the propane torch browning the tofu as I walked by.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

bezmenov 6y ago

The worst part of visiting Japan is it spoils your enjoyment of every other destination thereafter.

earthboundkid 6y ago
Lol, can’t talk about the NY subway with my New Yorker wife. “I mean, I guess if you consider it compared to the rest of the US, it’s a good system…”

tayo42 6y ago

> since I don't know any Japanese, but of course Japanese hospitality is top-notch I'm actually really surprised you're saying this. Maybe your Asian? There were a few izakaya I wandered into and got welcomed with a harsh no gaijin. I loved most of my trip to Japan (Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka) but that was jarring and off putting.

tlear 6y ago
It is not Asian/non Asian thing. It is language thing. Some shops do not want to serve you if they can’t speak language. Uncomfortable for them, you and other customers (that is their thinking), they might not even have menu you can understand and they speak no English except Hi bye It is also possible you wondered into a snack shop which is kind of like hostess bar but not. Basically part of the service is a conversation which is hard to do if you do not speak the language.

vmception 6y ago

That happened to me in golden dai, I went on a rainy sad and sketchy night, and the people in the tiny restuarant were just the happiest and curious, they could have been tourists from another part of Japan though, who knows I mean Japanese can keep to themselves too But the point is that the intimidate, accessible nature has other redeeming qualities

TheAdamist 6y ago

Some that size in japan have earned 3 Michelin stars, as jiro dreams of sushi famously did, before the stars were withdrawn due to lack of public access.

gyc 6y ago

Your description reminds me a lot of the restaurant in Midnight Diner.