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I'm a therapist, and I'm also an ACT practitioner. You're on the money here, though I'd encourage you to think even bigger. To use your example about travel: ex

I'm a therapist, and I'm also an ACT practitioner. You're on the money here, though I'd encourage you to think even bigger. To use your example about travel: extend it further. In ACT, goals and values couldn't be more different, and we spend a lot of time helping patients distinguish between the two. "Traveling" is a goal - the value would be found in "why travel?", what does it get you? If the answer to that is then something like "it gets me a sense of adventure", then the "value" (as defined in ACT, anyway) might be just that: you want to live adventurously, and traveling is a "goal" that you believe, at least for now, can bring you a little bit of that. In fact, one of my favorite ACT exercises is finding adverbs that fit these ideas, because adverbs cannot be "attained" like goals can. That's the whole problem with goals, in fact, that leads indirectly to a lot of pain: goals can be attained. ACT is lovely, but I'm biased. If you have any questions please ask!

aurbano 6y ago
That sounds really fascinating! Could you give more examples of those adverbs, or ACT in general? Do you apply it in your own life, and if so, how? (If you don’t mind sharing!)
dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
Can you give an example of the adverb thing?
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Not OP. One may may have the desire to think of oneself as one who lives adventurously [adverb modifying the verb lives]. Yet this same person may find some of the roles, activities, or trappings of actual adventuring; that is, the things one does to be considered adventurous by oneself and/or by others; to be not actually be enjoyable or tolerable to themselves, which creates tension within an individual, which could easily lead to self-blame. This is my interpretation of why this concept may be a useful aid to help one step outside their own perspective, and possibly help reveal unconscious desires, motivations, fears, and more.
  - dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
    Thanks that's really interesting.
maybelsyrup 6y ago
To both of you who replied: yes, I absolutely use these things in my own life. Before I say some of mine, it's important to allow these things to be mutable -- the "values" you, um, value, can change over the course of your life and that's okay. The best ones probably won't -- maybe you'll just shift in emphasis or priority -- but by really chewing on this topic regularly, it's possible to arrive at values that really truly speak to who you are at your deepest. The point isn't the adverbs themselves; that's just a way of getting to what matters most to you. So the exercise is something like "fill in the blank: I want to live ____ly." In my case, ones I "discovered" in myself fairly early were "candidly" and "compassionately" (or kindly - they're not exactly the same, I know, but for me they map onto very similar things). So in other words, two of my values, as ACT defines them, are candor and compassion. The effect is great, because there's no goal-pressure or even goal-attainment. There's no day that'll come in which I'll "be candid"; instead, I'm free to "derive" goals from that value, e.g. "how can I work some candor into _____ thing I'm doing today?". This conversation with my siblings; this project at work; me sitting down to do my taxes. It's weird sometimes, and you can either dismiss it or use it as a kind of creative prompt: "at first glance, my values don't really apply to this activity, but what's a way to work them in?" I can say more but I don't want to ramble.
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Thanks for your comments. I hope you keep posting here on HN, if you don’t already. There don’t seem to be many people on this board in your profession, and you write about the topics in a way that is clear and makes sense in the context of this community. I responded below to another commenter, not on your behalf of course. I hope I didn’t misrepresent your point. Thanks for posting.
  - maybelsyrup 6y ago
    I haven't looked again at this thread until now (I hadn't noticed the little karma ticker in my HN account go up), so apologies for missing this. I've just seen your comment below and it's great to see that people in this community are curious about these ideas and mental health more broadly. I don't think you misrepresented my point at all; in fact you engaged with it in a way I hadn't considered before. I think it's essential to remind ourselves just how freakin' young psychology, psychiatry, "mental health", and all within these things (especially ACT) really are. I don't think the public really knows how little we know as a profession, and how much many of the most touted interventions are, from researchers' points of view, really just modest attempts at making a positive impact. The public certainly aren't aware of the possible negative consequences of mental health treatments, including psychotherapy. And I'm sad to say many of my colleagues don't think a lot about this potential for _iatrogenesis_ , as it's known, either. All of which is to say that the more that intelligent people, like yourselves here on HN, engage critically with mental health, the better. I'll gladly continue posting here, and I thank you for the encouragement. It doesn't seem like HN has direct messages, sadly, otherwise I'd happily offer you or anyone else to reach out in private any time.
Zelphyr 6y ago
Thank you so much for the clarification between goals and values!! AND for the work you do! Finding a therapist who practices ACT changed my life.

aurbano 6y ago

That sounds really fascinating! Could you give more examples of those adverbs, or ACT in general? Do you apply it in your own life, and if so, how? (If you don’t mind sharing!)

dmitryminkovsky 6y ago

Can you give an example of the adverb thing?

aspenmayer 6y ago
Not OP. One may may have the desire to think of oneself as one who lives adventurously [adverb modifying the verb lives]. Yet this same person may find some of the roles, activities, or trappings of actual adventuring; that is, the things one does to be considered adventurous by oneself and/or by others; to be not actually be enjoyable or tolerable to themselves, which creates tension within an individual, which could easily lead to self-blame. This is my interpretation of why this concept may be a useful aid to help one step outside their own perspective, and possibly help reveal unconscious desires, motivations, fears, and more.
- dmitryminkovsky 6y ago
  Thanks that's really interesting.

maybelsyrup 6y ago

To both of you who replied: yes, I absolutely use these things in my own life. Before I say some of mine, it's important to allow these things to be mutable -- the "values" you, um, value, can change over the course of your life and that's okay. The best ones probably won't -- maybe you'll just shift in emphasis or priority -- but by really chewing on this topic regularly, it's possible to arrive at values that really truly speak to who you are at your deepest. The point isn't the adverbs themselves; that's just a way of getting to what matters most to you. So the exercise is something like "fill in the blank: I want to live ____ly." In my case, ones I "discovered" in myself fairly early were "candidly" and "compassionately" (or kindly - they're not exactly the same, I know, but for me they map onto very similar things). So in other words, two of my values, as ACT defines them, are candor and compassion. The effect is great, because there's no goal-pressure or even goal-attainment. There's no day that'll come in which I'll "be candid"; instead, I'm free to "derive" goals from that value, e.g. "how can I work some candor into _____ thing I'm doing today?". This conversation with my siblings; this project at work; me sitting down to do my taxes. It's weird sometimes, and you can either dismiss it or use it as a kind of creative prompt: "at first glance, my values don't really apply to this activity, but what's a way to work them in?" I can say more but I don't want to ramble.

aspenmayer 6y ago
Thanks for your comments. I hope you keep posting here on HN, if you don’t already. There don’t seem to be many people on this board in your profession, and you write about the topics in a way that is clear and makes sense in the context of this community. I responded below to another commenter, not on your behalf of course. I hope I didn’t misrepresent your point. Thanks for posting.
- maybelsyrup 6y ago
  I haven't looked again at this thread until now (I hadn't noticed the little karma ticker in my HN account go up), so apologies for missing this. I've just seen your comment below and it's great to see that people in this community are curious about these ideas and mental health more broadly. I don't think you misrepresented my point at all; in fact you engaged with it in a way I hadn't considered before. I think it's essential to remind ourselves just how freakin' young psychology, psychiatry, "mental health", and all within these things (especially ACT) really are. I don't think the public really knows how little we know as a profession, and how much many of the most touted interventions are, from researchers' points of view, really just modest attempts at making a positive impact. The public certainly aren't aware of the possible negative consequences of mental health treatments, including psychotherapy. And I'm sad to say many of my colleagues don't think a lot about this potential for _iatrogenesis_ , as it's known, either. All of which is to say that the more that intelligent people, like yourselves here on HN, engage critically with mental health, the better. I'll gladly continue posting here, and I thank you for the encouragement. It doesn't seem like HN has direct messages, sadly, otherwise I'd happily offer you or anyone else to reach out in private any time.

Zelphyr 6y ago

Thank you so much for the clarification between goals and values!! AND for the work you do! Finding a therapist who practices ACT changed my life.