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Without profit, people couldn't have created those things in the first place. Not because nessarily even they wouldn't have wanted to out of greed: if you can't

Without profit, people couldn't have created those things in the first place. Not because nessarily even they wouldn't have wanted to out of greed: if you can't feed your family at all with something it is less likely you will spend the amount of time on it that you would on something you can. Not to mention a lot of movies/books (Because of printing costs)/shows would just not have been possible without enough captial which comes from people who get said captial by making a profit.

kennywinker 6y ago
That is an argument for the existence of some ip laws, not that the current incarnation of them is the right one. But I would also draw your attention to the fashion industry. Before the 1980s logomania allowed for trademark law to be applied, there was basically zero IP protection on fashion... but it turns out it was a pretty robust industry anyway. As a society we've gotten pretty hooked on IP law, but I'm pretty convinced we'd all be a lot better off with MUCH much less.
grawprog 6y ago
I could list countless examples of things created without profit in mind just for the sheer joy of creation, I could list countless things where profit was not in mind, yet profit was generated, I could list countless things where things were created without profit as a motivation, those things never really generated profit, yet profit was generate later on future creations because of previous creations. Assuming everything is created with profit as a motive is fairly disingenuous. Look at the open software community just for a start. How many person-hours of labour has been put into those alone without profit ever coming into play as a motive? How much profit over how many people has been generated because of that work? Take say linux for example. What is the sheer number of people that have profited off of linux and the insane amount of overall profit generated vs. Linus, the 'original' creator of the kernel? Just to take one very small example. I'm guessing at least to start, and I may be wrong, but Linus probably isn't struggling financially, meanwhile just how many people now make a living off of linux existing? I imagine anyone would be hard pressed to actually calculate the amount of people that have profited off of linux being available freely, the actual amount of money made by literally everyone that's made money off it being created and distributed the way it has been, without profit being a sole motivator.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  Your response can be defeated by tweaking their statement, for charitable interpretation, into this: "Without profit, people couldn't have created [most of] those things in the first place [that people want the most]." It's not the free, hobby stuff that's giving IA trouble. And if you look at what people are consuming the most (games, books, movies, tv shows), they obviously prefer the content made by people trying to make a living, not the free-time hobby projects. The biggest games on Twitch are League of Legends and Fortnite, not The Battle of Wesnoth. Pointing out that people will make some content for fun doesn't really mean much because a world where we depend on hobby/passion projects is obviously not the optimum. I want someone to profit by making the exact content that I want.
aabbcc1241 6y ago
Not sure if it can be applied to book authoring. I work on open sourced projects in my free time, not for-profit; I have income from other source (jobs) to cover my financial need.

kennywinker 6y ago

That is an argument for the existence of some ip laws, not that the current incarnation of them is the right one. But I would also draw your attention to the fashion industry. Before the 1980s logomania allowed for trademark law to be applied, there was basically zero IP protection on fashion... but it turns out it was a pretty robust industry anyway. As a society we've gotten pretty hooked on IP law, but I'm pretty convinced we'd all be a lot better off with MUCH much less.

grawprog 6y ago

I could list countless examples of things created without profit in mind just for the sheer joy of creation, I could list countless things where profit was not in mind, yet profit was generated, I could list countless things where things were created without profit as a motivation, those things never really generated profit, yet profit was generate later on future creations because of previous creations. Assuming everything is created with profit as a motive is fairly disingenuous. Look at the open software community just for a start. How many person-hours of labour has been put into those alone without profit ever coming into play as a motive? How much profit over how many people has been generated because of that work? Take say linux for example. What is the sheer number of people that have profited off of linux and the insane amount of overall profit generated vs. Linus, the 'original' creator of the kernel? Just to take one very small example. I'm guessing at least to start, and I may be wrong, but Linus probably isn't struggling financially, meanwhile just how many people now make a living off of linux existing? I imagine anyone would be hard pressed to actually calculate the amount of people that have profited off of linux being available freely, the actual amount of money made by literally everyone that's made money off it being created and distributed the way it has been, without profit being a sole motivator.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
Your response can be defeated by tweaking their statement, for charitable interpretation, into this: "Without profit, people couldn't have created [most of] those things in the first place [that people want the most]." It's not the free, hobby stuff that's giving IA trouble. And if you look at what people are consuming the most (games, books, movies, tv shows), they obviously prefer the content made by people trying to make a living, not the free-time hobby projects. The biggest games on Twitch are League of Legends and Fortnite, not The Battle of Wesnoth. Pointing out that people will make some content for fun doesn't really mean much because a world where we depend on hobby/passion projects is obviously not the optimum. I want someone to profit by making the exact content that I want.

aabbcc1241 6y ago

Not sure if it can be applied to book authoring. I work on open sourced projects in my free time, not for-profit; I have income from other source (jobs) to cover my financial need.