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Does it not concern you that a significant portion of those surveyed think it’s okay to fire someone for their (financial) support of a political candidate? You

by kelchm 6y ago

Does it not concern you that a significant portion of those surveyed think it’s okay to fire someone for their (financial) support of a political candidate? You don’t have to talk about it for people to find out — it’s part public record if you are contributing more than $200. Seems insane to me.

ojnabieoot 6y ago
I would strongly support firing my company's CEO if they donated to Trump. And I would not have said that about Romney or McCain. The problem is not "a political candidate" or even "a highly conservative and deeply capitalistic candidate." The problem is that Trump is a fascist, a vicious racist, and the most corrupt president in American history. Supporting Trump doesn't speak to a difference in political philosophy: it's a fundamental deficit in character. How could anyone really say that a CEO who donated to Trump is also a CEO committed to a workplace free of bigotry and discrimination? Frankly, the same argument applies to any employee with hiring/firing responsibilities: they should be ashamed for supporting Trump and carry that black mark with them for the rest of their professional lives.
- Tycho 6y ago
  What are examples of this fascism and vicious racism? I’m always interested to hear how people arrive at these extreme opinions.
notJim 6y ago
Donald Trump said Mexican immigrants are rapists. If my coworker supports Trump, do they agree with this? I'm Mexican, do they think I'm a rapist? I know a friend who is a DREAMer, i.e., they are undocumented. Are they a rapist? How does my coworker's belief that Mexican immigrants are rapists affect their ability to work with other people? Should I have to wonder these things about someone I'm on a project with?
- iclosem 6y ago
  He said that for sure? That Mexican immigrants are rapists? Or that some of them are rapists?
  - notJim 6y ago
    His remarks are open to interpretation. Note however that he said that "They're not sending their best". One could interpret that to mean that he believes Mexicans as a whole are a fine group of people, but that those who immigrate from Mexico to the US represent a "worse" subgroup of the total group. Charitably, I think this could be characterized as meaning somewhere from "many Mexican immigrants are rapists" to "a higher-than-normal proportion of Mexican immigrants are rapists". In fact we know that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than the non-immigrant population. And setting aside the close-reading and the statistics, we should not be naive about his intention, which is to characterize Mexican immigrants as dangerous criminals. Again, should I have to wonder if my coworker believes this about me or my family?
    - DuskStar 6y ago
      > In fact we know that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than the non-immigrant population. Are you looking at illegal immigrants here, or just legal immigrants? Because it seems like this would be trivially false for illegal immigrants.
- dimgl 6y ago
  You're posting quite a lot of anti-Trump comments with some pretty wild accusations. Maybe it's time to stop flame-baiting politics on Hacker News? Also, the answer to your questions are predominantly no.
  - notJim 6y ago
    This is a thread where people are discussing politics, in which I am earnestly participating. Are you saying I'm not allowed to share my politics or ask questions on here? I thought we were concerned about free expression here. If you'd like to address my questions more specifically, I would be happy to read your response. But attempting to shut down my questions because you disagree with the direction you think they're heading is exactly what I thought we were opposed to.
zanny 6y ago
Heres an alternative way of thinking about it - why are you around someone you dislike? Businesses are not families, but if you cannot get along with your cowokers you cannot be that cooperative with them. Fundamentally I at least do not want to work with someone who is even still on the level of asking questions like "is racism bad?" or "do women deserve rights?". But a lot of people do do that. If I was hiring... I wouldn't want to hire people thinking like that. Its going to negatively impact what would almost certainly be a diverse group of people trying to cooperatively work together. It only feels problematic because we each recognize both how biased against the worker the power dynamic in modern western society is and that the job is not merely "the thing you do during the day with your buds" but "the means by which you put food in your mouth and have a bed". If its only about the former breaking relations over political leanings makes perfect sense, for the latter its ruining someones life over "frivolous politics". I'd rather be in the world where groups dissociate over ideological incompatibilities but where nobody is homeless or hungry for it than the one where ones need for food and shelter is an excuse to let toxic people make life worse for those around them.
- kelchm 6y ago
  I think you’re making a fundamentally incorrect assumption that you have to politically agree with someone to like them or successfully work with them. At least for me that’s not the case at all. I guess diversity includes everything but diversity of political opinion?
- notJim 6y ago
  > cowokers I know these are serious topics, but I hope we can all take a moment to have a laugh at this typo :).
notJim 6y ago
People in this thread claim to be concerned about others not feeling comfortable expressing their political views. And yet, a sibling to my comment which was simply expressing a political view is flagged/dead. https://i.imgur.com/9UtP4mU.png https://i.imgur.com/9UtP4mU.png. Will people speak out for this view, even if they disagree with it?
- dimgl 6y ago
  This "political view" is endorsing ruining/derailing someone's life because they support a cause. And most of it is defamatory towards Trump (because of course it is). This is some nice bait you've posted here. It's got all of the buzzwords in one comment: racist, bigotry, discrimination, conservative, capitalistic, facist, corrupt, and more!
- randompwd 6y ago
  The president is not an omnipotent king.
  - notJim 6y ago
    What does this have to do with my comment? I'm not saying the president flagged the thread, I'm saying HN users did. I don't think the president browses HN.
    - randompwd 6y ago
      The comment was about firing a CEO who donated to Trump. I'm pointing out that the US is a democracy which doesn't have a king. Being president doesn't mean one can do & act as they want..unlike donating to a would be king who would not be limited/balanced by the other branches of government.
- SaltyLemonZest 6y ago
  There are kernels of a political opinion in that comment, but it mostly consists of ad hominems against Trump supporters. They have a "fundamental deficit of character", they can't be trusted to avoid "bigotry and discrimination", they should "carry that black mark with them for the rest of their professional lives". I don't consider aggressive personal attacks like this to be political opinions; they're on the same level as wordless screams, attempts to rile people up rather than engage in discourse.
godshatter 6y ago
It seems insane to me, too. I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I don't think people should be getting fired for a political position they expressed outside of work. If Person A can't work with Person B because they don't like their political opinions and Person B keeps their opinions to themselves while on the job, I'd be much more likely to get rid of Person A. I would see them as the person that is causing strife in the workplace, not the other way around.

by kelchm 6y ago

ojnabieoot 6y ago

I would strongly support firing my company's CEO if they donated to Trump. And I would not have said that about Romney or McCain. The problem is not "a political candidate" or even "a highly conservative and deeply capitalistic candidate." The problem is that Trump is a fascist, a vicious racist, and the most corrupt president in American history. Supporting Trump doesn't speak to a difference in political philosophy: it's a fundamental deficit in character. How could anyone really say that a CEO who donated to Trump is also a CEO committed to a workplace free of bigotry and discrimination? Frankly, the same argument applies to any employee with hiring/firing responsibilities: they should be ashamed for supporting Trump and carry that black mark with them for the rest of their professional lives.

Tycho 6y ago
What are examples of this fascism and vicious racism? I’m always interested to hear how people arrive at these extreme opinions.

notJim 6y ago

Donald Trump said Mexican immigrants are rapists. If my coworker supports Trump, do they agree with this? I'm Mexican, do they think I'm a rapist? I know a friend who is a DREAMer, i.e., they are undocumented. Are they a rapist? How does my coworker's belief that Mexican immigrants are rapists affect their ability to work with other people? Should I have to wonder these things about someone I'm on a project with?

iclosem 6y ago
He said that for sure? That Mexican immigrants are rapists? Or that some of them are rapists?
- notJim 6y ago
  His remarks are open to interpretation. Note however that he said that "They're not sending their best". One could interpret that to mean that he believes Mexicans as a whole are a fine group of people, but that those who immigrate from Mexico to the US represent a "worse" subgroup of the total group. Charitably, I think this could be characterized as meaning somewhere from "many Mexican immigrants are rapists" to "a higher-than-normal proportion of Mexican immigrants are rapists". In fact we know that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than the non-immigrant population. And setting aside the close-reading and the statistics, we should not be naive about his intention, which is to characterize Mexican immigrants as dangerous criminals. Again, should I have to wonder if my coworker believes this about me or my family?
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    > In fact we know that immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than the non-immigrant population. Are you looking at illegal immigrants here, or just legal immigrants? Because it seems like this would be trivially false for illegal immigrants.
dimgl 6y ago
You're posting quite a lot of anti-Trump comments with some pretty wild accusations. Maybe it's time to stop flame-baiting politics on Hacker News? Also, the answer to your questions are predominantly no.
- notJim 6y ago
  This is a thread where people are discussing politics, in which I am earnestly participating. Are you saying I'm not allowed to share my politics or ask questions on here? I thought we were concerned about free expression here. If you'd like to address my questions more specifically, I would be happy to read your response. But attempting to shut down my questions because you disagree with the direction you think they're heading is exactly what I thought we were opposed to.

zanny 6y ago

Heres an alternative way of thinking about it - why are you around someone you dislike? Businesses are not families, but if you cannot get along with your cowokers you cannot be that cooperative with them. Fundamentally I at least do not want to work with someone who is even still on the level of asking questions like "is racism bad?" or "do women deserve rights?". But a lot of people do do that. If I was hiring... I wouldn't want to hire people thinking like that. Its going to negatively impact what would almost certainly be a diverse group of people trying to cooperatively work together. It only feels problematic because we each recognize both how biased against the worker the power dynamic in modern western society is and that the job is not merely "the thing you do during the day with your buds" but "the means by which you put food in your mouth and have a bed". If its only about the former breaking relations over political leanings makes perfect sense, for the latter its ruining someones life over "frivolous politics". I'd rather be in the world where groups dissociate over ideological incompatibilities but where nobody is homeless or hungry for it than the one where ones need for food and shelter is an excuse to let toxic people make life worse for those around them.

kelchm 6y ago
I think you’re making a fundamentally incorrect assumption that you have to politically agree with someone to like them or successfully work with them. At least for me that’s not the case at all. I guess diversity includes everything but diversity of political opinion?
notJim 6y ago
> cowokers I know these are serious topics, but I hope we can all take a moment to have a laugh at this typo :).

notJim 6y ago

People in this thread claim to be concerned about others not feeling comfortable expressing their political views. And yet, a sibling to my comment which was simply expressing a political view is flagged/dead. https://i.imgur.com/9UtP4mU.png https://i.imgur.com/9UtP4mU.png. Will people speak out for this view, even if they disagree with it?

dimgl 6y ago
This "political view" is endorsing ruining/derailing someone's life because they support a cause. And most of it is defamatory towards Trump (because of course it is). This is some nice bait you've posted here. It's got all of the buzzwords in one comment: racist, bigotry, discrimination, conservative, capitalistic, facist, corrupt, and more!
randompwd 6y ago
The president is not an omnipotent king.
- notJim 6y ago
  What does this have to do with my comment? I'm not saying the president flagged the thread, I'm saying HN users did. I don't think the president browses HN.
  - randompwd 6y ago
    The comment was about firing a CEO who donated to Trump. I'm pointing out that the US is a democracy which doesn't have a king. Being president doesn't mean one can do & act as they want..unlike donating to a would be king who would not be limited/balanced by the other branches of government.
SaltyLemonZest 6y ago
There are kernels of a political opinion in that comment, but it mostly consists of ad hominems against Trump supporters. They have a "fundamental deficit of character", they can't be trusted to avoid "bigotry and discrimination", they should "carry that black mark with them for the rest of their professional lives". I don't consider aggressive personal attacks like this to be political opinions; they're on the same level as wordless screams, attempts to rile people up rather than engage in discourse.

godshatter 6y ago

It seems insane to me, too. I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I don't think people should be getting fired for a political position they expressed outside of work. If Person A can't work with Person B because they don't like their political opinions and Person B keeps their opinions to themselves while on the job, I'd be much more likely to get rid of Person A. I would see them as the person that is causing strife in the workplace, not the other way around.