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> Nothing in it is really new. That isn't really the point. The point is that the US armed forces already use space for military purposes so extensively that t

> Nothing in it is really new. That isn't really the point. The point is that the US armed forces already use space for military purposes so extensively that they even have a whole branch dedicated to space militarization.

ardy42 6y ago
> That isn't really the point. The point is that the US armed forces already use space for military purposes so extensively that they even have a whole branch dedicated to space militarization. Military use of space != "militarization [of space]." My understanding is that the US Space Force pretty much just controls space assets used by the military that are comparable to civilian ones (i.e. sensor, communication, and navigation satellites). I don't think they've stationed any actual weapons in space.
- slim 6y ago
  Military use of space != "militarization [of space]." of course. in newspeak
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    if the military uses email to communicate, does that constitute the "militarization of email"? I have to imagine that for most people, "militarization of space" means actually putting weapons platforms in space.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > if the military uses email to communicate, does that constitute the "militarization of email"? Are you naive to the point where you believe that the US armed forces have spent billions establishing a global comm network just to send emails? I mean, did you failed to notice that the US's current strategic bet lies on it's ability to operate and manage autonomous vehicles through its global communication network?
      - esrauch 6y ago
        > Are you naive to the point where you believe that the US armed forces have spent billions establishing a global comm network just to send emails? I actually think it's very reasonable for the military to have spent billions just improving their human-to-human communication infrastructure. Efficient and highly available communication is vitally important for a functional military without needing to into autonomous vehicles.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    I think it's reasonable to differentiate between the military operations satellites in space and the military blowing up satellites in space. IMO the former is a good thing and the latter is a bad thing.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      But it’s ok to be blowing up stuff on the ground - gps is used for targeting every day of the week.
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        IMO yes, although I can totally understand why some might disagree with that opinion. If GPS went away, the US military wouldn't stop blowing stuff up. They'd just be less accurate with more collateral damage (especially when you take into account the lives that GPS saves by preventing KAL-007 type incidents, more efficient farming, better knowledge of seismology, etc etc)
- cryptoz 6y ago
  > I don't think they've stationed any actual weapons in space. The US Military has spent nearly half a century trying every single trick in the book to get around the 'laws' and put weapons in space. I would be personally extremely shocked to find that the US does not have militarization of space already stocked with weapons and things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Real_life_concepts_and_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Real_life_... https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a458089.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a458089.pdf https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_Project_Thor_would_fire_tungsten_poles_at_targets_from_outer_space_999.html https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_Project_Thor_would_fir... "Rods from God" / Project Thor is a public example of the US Military's unending desire to put weapons in space.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    Given all the launches accredited to SDI (and whatever it is named now) over the last 3+ decades it would be quite amazing if not one of them was a weapon test. Just what have they done with all that star wars budget if they were lofting flowers in muzzles?
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Just what have they done with all that star wars budget if they were lofting flowers in muzzles? Failing to produce much of use, mostly. It's hardly the first unproductive R&D program in our history. That said, there were absolutely weapons tests as part of SDI; they were just ground-to-space (and eventually turned into the current ABM programs). There were also space-based sensor systems - radars etc. There's no evidence I'm aware of of any US space-to-space weaponry having made it into actual testing.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman. Do you really not understand that what you euphemistically called "military use of space" is exactly the militarization of space? Do you actually not understand that spying and communicating are no less of a military threat than throwing bombs? I mean, why do you think missiles have been developed specifically to shoot down spy planes and radio-emitting sources?

ardy42 6y ago

> That isn't really the point. The point is that the US armed forces already use space for military purposes so extensively that they even have a whole branch dedicated to space militarization. Military use of space != "militarization [of space]." My understanding is that the US Space Force pretty much just controls space assets used by the military that are comparable to civilian ones (i.e. sensor, communication, and navigation satellites). I don't think they've stationed any actual weapons in space.

slim 6y ago
Military use of space != "militarization [of space]." of course. in newspeak
- leetcrew 6y ago
  if the military uses email to communicate, does that constitute the "militarization of email"? I have to imagine that for most people, "militarization of space" means actually putting weapons platforms in space.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > if the military uses email to communicate, does that constitute the "militarization of email"? Are you naive to the point where you believe that the US armed forces have spent billions establishing a global comm network just to send emails? I mean, did you failed to notice that the US's current strategic bet lies on it's ability to operate and manage autonomous vehicles through its global communication network?
    - esrauch 6y ago
      > Are you naive to the point where you believe that the US armed forces have spent billions establishing a global comm network just to send emails? I actually think it's very reasonable for the military to have spent billions just improving their human-to-human communication infrastructure. Efficient and highly available communication is vitally important for a functional military without needing to into autonomous vehicles.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  I think it's reasonable to differentiate between the military operations satellites in space and the military blowing up satellites in space. IMO the former is a good thing and the latter is a bad thing.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    But it’s ok to be blowing up stuff on the ground - gps is used for targeting every day of the week.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      IMO yes, although I can totally understand why some might disagree with that opinion. If GPS went away, the US military wouldn't stop blowing stuff up. They'd just be less accurate with more collateral damage (especially when you take into account the lives that GPS saves by preventing KAL-007 type incidents, more efficient farming, better knowledge of seismology, etc etc)
cryptoz 6y ago
> I don't think they've stationed any actual weapons in space. The US Military has spent nearly half a century trying every single trick in the book to get around the 'laws' and put weapons in space. I would be personally extremely shocked to find that the US does not have militarization of space already stocked with weapons and things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Real_life_concepts_and_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment#Real_life_... https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a458089.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a458089.pdf https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_Project_Thor_would_fire_tungsten_poles_at_targets_from_outer_space_999.html https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_Project_Thor_would_fir... "Rods from God" / Project Thor is a public example of the US Military's unending desire to put weapons in space.
- hindsightbias 6y ago
  Given all the launches accredited to SDI (and whatever it is named now) over the last 3+ decades it would be quite amazing if not one of them was a weapon test. Just what have they done with all that star wars budget if they were lofting flowers in muzzles?
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Just what have they done with all that star wars budget if they were lofting flowers in muzzles? Failing to produce much of use, mostly. It's hardly the first unproductive R&D program in our history. That said, there were absolutely weapons tests as part of SDI; they were just ground-to-space (and eventually turned into the current ABM programs). There were also space-based sensor systems - radars etc. There's no evidence I'm aware of of any US space-to-space weaponry having made it into actual testing.
rumanator 6y ago
Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman. Do you really not understand that what you euphemistically called "military use of space" is exactly the militarization of space? Do you actually not understand that spying and communicating are no less of a military threat than throwing bombs? I mean, why do you think missiles have been developed specifically to shoot down spy planes and radio-emitting sources?