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As far as I can tell this is a non-story about semantics. The Navy doesn't recruit on Twitch, it advertises on Twitch.

JoeSmithson 6y ago
Exactly. Vice are trying to frame this like some massive gotcha, but the Navy lays out their strategy openly; > “While we do not actively recruit on Twitch or through such streaming platforms, the esports team members are there to answer questions about their experiences in the Navy. If a user specifically asks an esports team member about joining the Navy, that team member will move that conversation to a private message to first find out if the interested user is over 17, and if that user is over 17 then the recruiter will thank them for their interest and refer them to Navy.com where they can talk to a recruiter.” Vice prepends this quote with "In an email to Motherboard, the Navy insisted it wasn’t using Twitch to recruit." which seems like a bizarre mischaracterisation to me
refurb 6y ago
That’s my take as well. It’s just marketing speak. They are raising “awareness” not “recruiting”. Similar to a CPG company saying we’re raising “awareness” of our product on Twitch, not “selling” our product. For your average person, that may seem like meaningless splitting of hairs, but that’s how it’s discussed in the marketing world. Amazing a whole article was written about this.
- mercurysmessage 6y ago
  OK, "raising awareness" of what, and for what reason? It's clearly for recruiting purposes.
  - refurb 6y ago
    When you see an ad for shampoo on Youtube, do would you say the company is "selling" the product on Youtube? Like I said, it's splitting hairs with words, but it's not some grand conspiracy as per the Vox article.
    - mercurysmessage 6y ago
      It's not splitting hairs, you are the only one splitting hairs here. The vox article clearly shows that they were trying to recruit, even though they say they aren't. It's not a grand conspiracy but it's the same as the military using Hollywood for recruiting.
austinl 6y ago
Yeah, this 100% semantics, with a misleading headline. A better story would have read "How the U.S. Navy leverages Twitch and esports as a marketing channel". Instead, it takes a quote from one of the players, Crosswhite, then labels Crosswhite as representing the whole Navy with the headline: "The Navy Says It's Not Recruiting on Twitch". What's worse is it tries to sell this controversy, as if the Navy is denying its involvement and Vice unearthed some secret documents, which is just not true. Here's the quote from the article: Machinist's mate First Class Andrew “Saltysn1pe” Crosswhite answered a question from the audience about why the Navy was streaming video games. “We’re here to show that we play video games, literally,” Crosswhite said. “We’re not here to recruit. That is not the point of this.” According to Navy documents viewed by Motherboard, that’s not true. Crosswhite obviously meant that they are not actually recruiting on the channel, but the purpose is undoubtedly marketing for the Navy. I don't think any of the players on the team are that naive — they're supported by the Navy because of the marketing opportunity.
deleted 6y ago
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tareqak 6y ago
As far as I know, the all US military branches are prohibited from attempting to recruit individuals younger than the age of 17. I do not have have any specific knowledge of what the specific law is, but I found the following from https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/503 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/503 after a quick search and it seems related to general idea of not collecting information about individuals younger than 17: begin quote >> 10 U.S. Code § 503 - Enlistments: recruiting campaigns; compilation of directory information (b) Compilation of Directory Information.— (1) The Secretary of Defense may collect and compile directory information pertaining to each student who is 17 years of age or older or in the eleventh grade (or its equivalent) or higher and who is enrolled in a secondary school in the United States or its territories, possessions, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. << end quote By default, Twitch allows individuals as young as 13 to use their site. Twitch also allows streamers who stream more mature content (language, games meant for individuals 18+) to warn viewers of this content (see https://imgur.com/a/Gv1Yfun https://imgur.com/a/Gv1Yfun for a screenshot of the warning). In fact, Twitch account managers will often reach out to streamers and ask them to enable this feature if their channel has been reported. As of July 23, 2020 2:03 PM EDT, the US Navy Twitch channel at https://www.twitch.tv/americasnavy https://www.twitch.tv/americasnavy does not have this enabled.
- refurb 6y ago
  That's covered in the article - any recruiting discussions are pulled into a private channel and include confirmation of users age.

Exactly. Vice are trying to frame this like some massive gotcha, but the Navy lays out their strategy openly; > “While we do not actively recruit on Twitch or through such streaming platforms, the esports team members are there to answer questions about their experiences in the Navy. If a user specifically asks an esports team member about joining the Navy, that team member will move that conversation to a private message to first find out if the interested user is over 17, and if that user is over 17 then the recruiter will thank them for their interest and refer them to Navy.com where they can talk to a recruiter.” Vice prepends this quote with "In an email to Motherboard, the Navy insisted it wasn’t using Twitch to recruit." which seems like a bizarre mischaracterisation to me

refurb 6y ago

That’s my take as well. It’s just marketing speak. They are raising “awareness” not “recruiting”. Similar to a CPG company saying we’re raising “awareness” of our product on Twitch, not “selling” our product. For your average person, that may seem like meaningless splitting of hairs, but that’s how it’s discussed in the marketing world. Amazing a whole article was written about this.

mercurysmessage 6y ago
OK, "raising awareness" of what, and for what reason? It's clearly for recruiting purposes.
- refurb 6y ago
  When you see an ad for shampoo on Youtube, do would you say the company is "selling" the product on Youtube? Like I said, it's splitting hairs with words, but it's not some grand conspiracy as per the Vox article.
  - mercurysmessage 6y ago
    It's not splitting hairs, you are the only one splitting hairs here. The vox article clearly shows that they were trying to recruit, even though they say they aren't. It's not a grand conspiracy but it's the same as the military using Hollywood for recruiting.

austinl 6y ago

Yeah, this 100% semantics, with a misleading headline. A better story would have read "How the U.S. Navy leverages Twitch and esports as a marketing channel". Instead, it takes a quote from one of the players, Crosswhite, then labels Crosswhite as representing the whole Navy with the headline: "The Navy Says It's Not Recruiting on Twitch". What's worse is it tries to sell this controversy, as if the Navy is denying its involvement and Vice unearthed some secret documents, which is just not true. Here's the quote from the article: Machinist's mate First Class Andrew “Saltysn1pe” Crosswhite answered a question from the audience about why the Navy was streaming video games. “We’re here to show that we play video games, literally,” Crosswhite said. “We’re not here to recruit. That is not the point of this.” According to Navy documents viewed by Motherboard, that’s not true. Crosswhite obviously meant that they are not actually recruiting on the channel, but the purpose is undoubtedly marketing for the Navy. I don't think any of the players on the team are that naive — they're supported by the Navy because of the marketing opportunity.

deleted 6y ago

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tareqak 6y ago

As far as I know, the all US military branches are prohibited from attempting to recruit individuals younger than the age of 17. I do not have have any specific knowledge of what the specific law is, but I found the following from https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/503 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/503 after a quick search and it seems related to general idea of not collecting information about individuals younger than 17: begin quote >> 10 U.S. Code § 503 - Enlistments: recruiting campaigns; compilation of directory information (b) Compilation of Directory Information.— (1) The Secretary of Defense may collect and compile directory information pertaining to each student who is 17 years of age or older or in the eleventh grade (or its equivalent) or higher and who is enrolled in a secondary school in the United States or its territories, possessions, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. << end quote By default, Twitch allows individuals as young as 13 to use their site. Twitch also allows streamers who stream more mature content (language, games meant for individuals 18+) to warn viewers of this content (see https://imgur.com/a/Gv1Yfun https://imgur.com/a/Gv1Yfun for a screenshot of the warning). In fact, Twitch account managers will often reach out to streamers and ask them to enable this feature if their channel has been reported. As of July 23, 2020 2:03 PM EDT, the US Navy Twitch channel at https://www.twitch.tv/americasnavy https://www.twitch.tv/americasnavy does not have this enabled.

refurb 6y ago
That's covered in the article - any recruiting discussions are pulled into a private channel and include confirmation of users age.