9 ms·

Author here. Happy to answer any questions or take any feedback about this post.

pdevine 6y ago
Dude, thanks so much for this. I have a loud machine I’m using for ML stuff and I’ve been reluctant to move it to the basement as I didn’t want to have to run downstairs with a monitor for the odd issue. I also looked at KVMs and was annoyed at the prices. I have a R Pi sitting here I was looking to do a project with. This is perfect!
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Oh, that's great! So glad it was helpful!
simlevesque 6y ago
How would you remotely connect to something like this ? using something like ngrok ?
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Yeah, I haven't looked into that much because everything is on my local network. ngrok looks like it would work. One of my users is looking into remote.it, which seems like a similar service.
  - gyrgtyn 6y ago
    zerotier
  - jimatremoteit 6y ago
    I work for remote.it. If you or your users need any help setting up remote access to the TinyPilot let us know. This looks like a great application. We can make ssh/VNC/http on the Pi available remotely over internet as a free service no problem.
    - mtlynch 6y ago
      Oh, that's awesome. Thank you!
- fock 6y ago
  or VPN on your router? or just get a VPS and run wireguard.
ghaberek 6y ago
Would a Pi Zero W work for this, or do you need a full-size Pi 4? I would think that with the HDMI dongle doing the hardware MJPEG encoding, a Pi Zero might suffice. It'd be really neat to A) bring the cost down another $30 and B) be able to package everything into a tiny 3D printed case.
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Thanks for reading! >Would a Pi Zero W work for this, or do you need a full-size Pi 4? I tested Key Mime Pi (the keyboard-only version) on the Pi Zero W and it worked great. I haven't tested TinyPilot on the Pi Zero W, but I think it will work. The video encoding is happening in the HDMI dongle, so it doesn't hammer resources much. I don't have a USB to microUSB adaptor on hand, but I'll order one now and see if it works. >be able to package everything into a tiny 3D printed case. Yeah, that would be neat! One of the biggest issues I have with TinyPilot's setup right now is that it looks kind of like a bunch of random hobbyist parts stuck together. A 3D printed case would be good and wouldn't have the heat issues that Pi 4 has.[0] [0] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/best-way-keep-your-cool-running-raspberry-pi-4 https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/best-way-keep-your-co...
  - cricalix 6y ago
    You might also be able to use the "standard" radio kit metal boxes - tap some standoffs, carefully drill some holes for wires etc. Dunno which works out better for the world - ordering a pre-fab metal box that you have to do some work on (or perhaps use https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ to get a customised enclosure), or printing something from plastic. Might depend on production volume, metal used etc.
  - trm42 6y ago
    Do you happen to have any idea, whether older RPIs like 1 or 2 could work for this fast enough? Have some of those laying around.
    - mtlynch 6y ago
wojciii 6y ago
Cool project, but what about power management? What happens if the PC being controlled crashes and does not let you reboot it using keyboard shortcut? I'm might be damaged by testing and working with embedded development.
- swsieber 6y ago
  If you can plug stuff into it, just use the KVM from a laptop and sit by it.
- fanatic2pope 6y ago
  Plug it into a smart outlet running tasmota.
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Thanks for reading! >Cool project, but what about power management? What happens if the PC being controlled crashes and does not let you reboot it using keyboard shortcut? Yeah, that's one of the limitations. TinyPilot can't control power for the target computer. I don't know of any way to manage power without connecting the Pi to the target machine's motherboard, but that increases complexity significantly. I'm using this for a homelab, so it's easy for me to walk over and cycle power if that ever comes up, but for this to support more remote scenarios, I'd need to address this.
  - baq 6y ago
    hook up a gpio pin to a reset switch jumper somehow?
  - wojciii 6y ago
    APC produces (or rebranded) power control modules you can control over Ethernet. They are probably expensive. There are most likely cheaper products which would work. You should probably implement some kind of power control interface that could be used. Calling a shell script would be enough and some example implementations provided by your users. :) It doesn't need to be complicated.
  - oakwhiz 6y ago
tinco 6y ago
This is epic, I run a small computer cluster using workstation hardware (AMD 3970X's) and no IPMI boards exist. If I get some time I might build 7 of your little system to manage them all. Thanks!
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Awesome! I'd love to hear how it turns out.
silverp1 6y ago
Any thoughts on how this could work with VGA for example?
- mtlynch 6y ago
  I believe it should work with a VGA to HDMI adaptor, as another commenter suggested[0], though I haven't tested this personally. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23928401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23928401
tlamponi 6y ago
Really nice, exactly what I need just now as I'm setting up a remote workstation/part-time server at my families farm, but did not have a motherboard with IPMI/iKVM at hand. Oh, and thanks for using Proxmox VE! Was positively surprised when I saw our installer flash up out of nowhere :)
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Wow, thank YOU for making Proxmox! I'm switching over after three years of Kimchi[0], and Proxmox does everything so much better. [0] https://github.com/kimchi-project/kimchi https://github.com/kimchi-project/kimchi
  - tlamponi 6y ago
    Glad to hear that you like it! For (integrated) mouse support you could take a look at a project from a good friend and colleague: https://github.com/Blub/netevent https://github.com/Blub/netevent Allows passing along arbitrary input events over the network and more.
    - mtlynch 6y ago
      Thanks! I'll check it out.
da39a3ee 6y ago
This isn't an area I know anything about but I really enjoyed your write-up (I still don't know what KVM stands for! But I get that you wanted to act as a physical keyboard and display over IP). From a quick skim of your site it looks like you've worked at large companies and now are doing some independent projects. Do you think you'll go back to working for a company (perhaps a smaller one?), or do you see yourself working independently for many years? I ask because (a) I'm also casting about at a similar point in my career doing independent projects, but (b) I've never worked at a truly large company, and (c) (someone like) you seem(s) like you'd be a great colleague to work with, and (d) my vague ambition is to work for a small company with skilled colleagues that I can learn from and to work on "technical" projects as opposed to product development but (e) I guess, when I see talented people such as yourself apparently rejecting the conventional job market, I partly infer that they've looked at what's on offer and declined and thus that I'm deluding myself in thinking that I'll find something in the conventional job market that I really want.
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Thanks for reading! >I still don't know what KVM stands for! Oh, keyboard, video, mouse. The article does define it, but it's a little buried. >From a quick skim of your site it looks like you've worked at large companies and now are doing some independent projects. Do you think you'll go back to working for a company (perhaps a smaller one?), or do you see yourself working independently for many years? I'd love to continue working for myself forever. My ideal would be if I could find a business sustainable enough that I can hire 2-5 developers and other teammates to work with me. If I did have to go back to being an employee, I'd probably lean toward something smaller. It's very much about your temperament, what type of work you enjoy, and how much you value flexibility and autonomy. A good way to test the waters is by building a side business and see if you enjoy it more than your job. You can also read/hear more about the lifestyle in places like Indie Hackers[0], Starter Story[1], and WIP[2]. But I agree with you that you pass up certain kinds of growth by working on your own. I'm happy that I had ~10 years of experience with big companies before doing my own thing. I learn a lot on my own, but I don't think I could have learned a lot of my software "craftsmanship" kind of skills (e.g., designing for maintainability, creating repeatable, well-documented processes) had I not worked for Google and Microsoft. [0] https://indiehackers.com https://indiehackers.com [1] https://starterstory.com https://starterstory.com [2] https://wip.chat https://wip.chat
PaulKeeble 6y ago
Have you looked at a solution for controlling the power on/off yet? This was something I was considering to do with a Raspberry PI and a relay and I figure it is the final part of the solution for when the machine inevitably crashes. Admittedly if its just across the room it was less of a concern but I have had the need to restart while I was away before and it would be nice to be part of the solution.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  This is a pretty simple thing to achieve electrically, just plug something instead of the power button inside the computer. You likely just need one mosfet. If soldering is too uncomfortable, you can find relays to control the main power supply (requires screwing a power supply cable and a couple dupont connectors). If you don't want to touch anything related to electronics, you could rely on enabling a watchdog on boot-up. Or control if from a smart power supply (you likely have a UPS plugged in, for instance). Use the power after power loss BIOS feature, or WoL to wake it up.
tootie 6y ago
If this just requires USB and HDMI, it should theoretically work identically a for Mac Mini or even something like a Fire TV, yes? Is there an upper limit on resolution and frame rate for the dongle?
- mtlynch 6y ago
  >If this just requires USB and HDMI, it should theoretically work identically a for Mac Mini or even something like a Fire TV, yes? I believe so, but with the caveat that I haven't tested it. Does Fire TV take USB keyboard input? I have successfully captured video from a Roku Premiere[0], even though it's HDCP protected. The LKV373A couldn't capture anything out of it, but the $11 dongle did just fine. But that was just video capture. I didn't have a way of sending input to the Roku. >Is there an upper limit on resolution and frame rate for the dongle? Yes, the limit is 1280x720px @ 30FPS. [0] https://twitter.com/tinypilotkvm/status/1277994838210875392 https://twitter.com/tinypilotkvm/status/1277994838210875392
  - tootie 6y ago
    I have a Fire TV brick (not stick) and it has a USB A port that I've successfully used with a mouse at least. I don't have a keyboard handy to test.
Uhhrrr 6y ago
I love how this is a project which puts together several different projects which are themselves the product of significant amounts of effort: RPi, the HDMI-USB dongle, the browser, and uStreamer. I think we are in for an interesting decade or so of people plugging things together like this. I'm curious why you use the browser instead of ffplay for decoding and display. I'd guess ffplay would be faster - but maybe not?
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  For one, it wraps the screen and input into one window. Using two would be unwieldy.
fock 6y ago
and today I was wondering how to solve the video problem! that's great timing.
msbroadf 6y ago
I was wondering if you could try my usb-ip software for the hdmi dongle. https://www.virtualhere.com https://www.virtualhere.com (ill give you a license key) i think this is quite useful for my customers and its something i was looking for. Can you pass the dongle directly through to your pc (no need for intermediate software) and see what the performance is like.
- mtlynch 6y ago
  Thanks for reading! I'm not sure that VirtualHere would work in this scenario because it looks like it requires code on the client computer. I'd like to encapsulate all the software on the Pi so that the client computer doesn't need anything more than a web browser. The other tricky issue is that uStreamer is optimizing the stream to drop frames from the dongle when it detects that the browser is falling behind, so we'd lose that functionality.

Dude, thanks so much for this. I have a loud machine I’m using for ML stuff and I’ve been reluctant to move it to the basement as I didn’t want to have to run downstairs with a monitor for the odd issue. I also looked at KVMs and was annoyed at the prices. I have a R Pi sitting here I was looking to do a project with. This is perfect!

mtlynch 6y ago
Oh, that's great! So glad it was helpful!

simlevesque 6y ago

How would you remotely connect to something like this ? using something like ngrok ?

mtlynch 6y ago
Yeah, I haven't looked into that much because everything is on my local network. ngrok looks like it would work. One of my users is looking into remote.it, which seems like a similar service.
- gyrgtyn 6y ago
  zerotier
- jimatremoteit 6y ago
  I work for remote.it. If you or your users need any help setting up remote access to the TinyPilot let us know. This looks like a great application. We can make ssh/VNC/http on the Pi available remotely over internet as a free service no problem.
  - mtlynch 6y ago
    Oh, that's awesome. Thank you!
fock 6y ago
or VPN on your router? or just get a VPS and run wireguard.

ghaberek 6y ago

Would a Pi Zero W work for this, or do you need a full-size Pi 4? I would think that with the HDMI dongle doing the hardware MJPEG encoding, a Pi Zero might suffice. It'd be really neat to A) bring the cost down another $30 and B) be able to package everything into a tiny 3D printed case.

mtlynch 6y ago
Thanks for reading! >Would a Pi Zero W work for this, or do you need a full-size Pi 4? I tested Key Mime Pi (the keyboard-only version) on the Pi Zero W and it worked great. I haven't tested TinyPilot on the Pi Zero W, but I think it will work. The video encoding is happening in the HDMI dongle, so it doesn't hammer resources much. I don't have a USB to microUSB adaptor on hand, but I'll order one now and see if it works. >be able to package everything into a tiny 3D printed case. Yeah, that would be neat! One of the biggest issues I have with TinyPilot's setup right now is that it looks kind of like a bunch of random hobbyist parts stuck together. A 3D printed case would be good and wouldn't have the heat issues that Pi 4 has.[0] [0] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/best-way-keep-your-cool-running-raspberry-pi-4 https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/best-way-keep-your-co...
- cricalix 6y ago
  You might also be able to use the "standard" radio kit metal boxes - tap some standoffs, carefully drill some holes for wires etc. Dunno which works out better for the world - ordering a pre-fab metal box that you have to do some work on (or perhaps use https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ to get a customised enclosure), or printing something from plastic. Might depend on production volume, metal used etc.
- trm42 6y ago
  Do you happen to have any idea, whether older RPIs like 1 or 2 could work for this fast enough? Have some of those laying around.
  - mtlynch 6y ago

wojciii 6y ago

Cool project, but what about power management? What happens if the PC being controlled crashes and does not let you reboot it using keyboard shortcut? I'm might be damaged by testing and working with embedded development.

swsieber 6y ago
If you can plug stuff into it, just use the KVM from a laptop and sit by it.
fanatic2pope 6y ago
Plug it into a smart outlet running tasmota.
mtlynch 6y ago
Thanks for reading! >Cool project, but what about power management? What happens if the PC being controlled crashes and does not let you reboot it using keyboard shortcut? Yeah, that's one of the limitations. TinyPilot can't control power for the target computer. I don't know of any way to manage power without connecting the Pi to the target machine's motherboard, but that increases complexity significantly. I'm using this for a homelab, so it's easy for me to walk over and cycle power if that ever comes up, but for this to support more remote scenarios, I'd need to address this.
- baq 6y ago
  hook up a gpio pin to a reset switch jumper somehow?
- wojciii 6y ago
  APC produces (or rebranded) power control modules you can control over Ethernet. They are probably expensive. There are most likely cheaper products which would work. You should probably implement some kind of power control interface that could be used. Calling a shell script would be enough and some example implementations provided by your users. :) It doesn't need to be complicated.
- oakwhiz 6y ago

tinco 6y ago

This is epic, I run a small computer cluster using workstation hardware (AMD 3970X's) and no IPMI boards exist. If I get some time I might build 7 of your little system to manage them all. Thanks!

mtlynch 6y ago
Awesome! I'd love to hear how it turns out.

silverp1 6y ago

Any thoughts on how this could work with VGA for example?

mtlynch 6y ago
I believe it should work with a VGA to HDMI adaptor, as another commenter suggested[0], though I haven't tested this personally. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23928401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23928401

tlamponi 6y ago

Really nice, exactly what I need just now as I'm setting up a remote workstation/part-time server at my families farm, but did not have a motherboard with IPMI/iKVM at hand. Oh, and thanks for using Proxmox VE! Was positively surprised when I saw our installer flash up out of nowhere :)

mtlynch 6y ago
Wow, thank YOU for making Proxmox! I'm switching over after three years of Kimchi[0], and Proxmox does everything so much better. [0] https://github.com/kimchi-project/kimchi https://github.com/kimchi-project/kimchi
- tlamponi 6y ago
  Glad to hear that you like it! For (integrated) mouse support you could take a look at a project from a good friend and colleague: https://github.com/Blub/netevent https://github.com/Blub/netevent Allows passing along arbitrary input events over the network and more.
  - mtlynch 6y ago
    Thanks! I'll check it out.

da39a3ee 6y ago

This isn't an area I know anything about but I really enjoyed your write-up (I still don't know what KVM stands for! But I get that you wanted to act as a physical keyboard and display over IP). From a quick skim of your site it looks like you've worked at large companies and now are doing some independent projects. Do you think you'll go back to working for a company (perhaps a smaller one?), or do you see yourself working independently for many years? I ask because (a) I'm also casting about at a similar point in my career doing independent projects, but (b) I've never worked at a truly large company, and (c) (someone like) you seem(s) like you'd be a great colleague to work with, and (d) my vague ambition is to work for a small company with skilled colleagues that I can learn from and to work on "technical" projects as opposed to product development but (e) I guess, when I see talented people such as yourself apparently rejecting the conventional job market, I partly infer that they've looked at what's on offer and declined and thus that I'm deluding myself in thinking that I'll find something in the conventional job market that I really want.

mtlynch 6y ago
Thanks for reading! >I still don't know what KVM stands for! Oh, keyboard, video, mouse. The article does define it, but it's a little buried. >From a quick skim of your site it looks like you've worked at large companies and now are doing some independent projects. Do you think you'll go back to working for a company (perhaps a smaller one?), or do you see yourself working independently for many years? I'd love to continue working for myself forever. My ideal would be if I could find a business sustainable enough that I can hire 2-5 developers and other teammates to work with me. If I did have to go back to being an employee, I'd probably lean toward something smaller. It's very much about your temperament, what type of work you enjoy, and how much you value flexibility and autonomy. A good way to test the waters is by building a side business and see if you enjoy it more than your job. You can also read/hear more about the lifestyle in places like Indie Hackers[0], Starter Story[1], and WIP[2]. But I agree with you that you pass up certain kinds of growth by working on your own. I'm happy that I had ~10 years of experience with big companies before doing my own thing. I learn a lot on my own, but I don't think I could have learned a lot of my software "craftsmanship" kind of skills (e.g., designing for maintainability, creating repeatable, well-documented processes) had I not worked for Google and Microsoft. [0] https://indiehackers.com https://indiehackers.com [1] https://starterstory.com https://starterstory.com [2] https://wip.chat https://wip.chat

PaulKeeble 6y ago

Have you looked at a solution for controlling the power on/off yet? This was something I was considering to do with a Raspberry PI and a relay and I figure it is the final part of the solution for when the machine inevitably crashes. Admittedly if its just across the room it was less of a concern but I have had the need to restart while I was away before and it would be nice to be part of the solution.

MayeulC 6y ago
This is a pretty simple thing to achieve electrically, just plug something instead of the power button inside the computer. You likely just need one mosfet. If soldering is too uncomfortable, you can find relays to control the main power supply (requires screwing a power supply cable and a couple dupont connectors). If you don't want to touch anything related to electronics, you could rely on enabling a watchdog on boot-up. Or control if from a smart power supply (you likely have a UPS plugged in, for instance). Use the power after power loss BIOS feature, or WoL to wake it up.

tootie 6y ago

If this just requires USB and HDMI, it should theoretically work identically a for Mac Mini or even something like a Fire TV, yes? Is there an upper limit on resolution and frame rate for the dongle?

mtlynch 6y ago
>If this just requires USB and HDMI, it should theoretically work identically a for Mac Mini or even something like a Fire TV, yes? I believe so, but with the caveat that I haven't tested it. Does Fire TV take USB keyboard input? I have successfully captured video from a Roku Premiere[0], even though it's HDCP protected. The LKV373A couldn't capture anything out of it, but the $11 dongle did just fine. But that was just video capture. I didn't have a way of sending input to the Roku. >Is there an upper limit on resolution and frame rate for the dongle? Yes, the limit is 1280x720px @ 30FPS. [0] https://twitter.com/tinypilotkvm/status/1277994838210875392 https://twitter.com/tinypilotkvm/status/1277994838210875392
- tootie 6y ago
  I have a Fire TV brick (not stick) and it has a USB A port that I've successfully used with a mouse at least. I don't have a keyboard handy to test.

Uhhrrr 6y ago

I love how this is a project which puts together several different projects which are themselves the product of significant amounts of effort: RPi, the HDMI-USB dongle, the browser, and uStreamer. I think we are in for an interesting decade or so of people plugging things together like this. I'm curious why you use the browser instead of ffplay for decoding and display. I'd guess ffplay would be faster - but maybe not?

mixmastamyk 6y ago
For one, it wraps the screen and input into one window. Using two would be unwieldy.

fock 6y ago

and today I was wondering how to solve the video problem! that's great timing.

msbroadf 6y ago

I was wondering if you could try my usb-ip software for the hdmi dongle. https://www.virtualhere.com https://www.virtualhere.com (ill give you a license key) i think this is quite useful for my customers and its something i was looking for. Can you pass the dongle directly through to your pc (no need for intermediate software) and see what the performance is like.

mtlynch 6y ago
Thanks for reading! I'm not sure that VirtualHere would work in this scenario because it looks like it requires code on the client computer. I'd like to encapsulate all the software on the Pi so that the client computer doesn't need anything more than a web browser. The other tricky issue is that uStreamer is optimizing the stream to drop frames from the dongle when it detects that the browser is falling behind, so we'd lose that functionality.