4 ms·

Everyone loves to hate Flash, but as an environment to create things it was actually great. It was the player that wasn’t great.

rimliu 6y ago
I wish everyone in web developemnt stopped only looking at the thing that makes it easier for themselves and start to focus on what's best for the users.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  Flash websites were awesome. the player needed work, but for end users there web was a much more interesting and diverse place
  - cnasc 6y ago
    Unless you used a screen reader
    - woodrowbarlow 6y ago
      or, frankly, any of the features provided by your internet browser. back button, bookmark, open link in new window... (i'm interpreting 'flash websites' as 'websites made in flash'. i'm not referring to websites that contained flash applets.)
    - schwartzworld 6y ago
      True, although if Flash had stuck around long enough (i.e. if iPhone hadn't signed it's death warrant) I'm sure eventually we could have come up with a solution for a11y. Most of the flash sites that I really remember consuming were actually very simple documents that relied on flash for presentation, so it would be easy to provide a screen reader friendly version of the content. Also a lot of flash content was cartoons and games which don't lend themselves to screen readers anyway.
johannes1234321 6y ago
Yes, Flash was a great tool to create stuff. (I only used it in Macromedia times) This however also lead to an abuse and for a while you had websites, fully in flash which broke so many things (deep linking/bookamrks, browser history, etc.) combined with unintuitive navigation and slowness due to animations ... plain overuse of an otherwise good technology.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > broke so many things (deep linking/bookamrks, browser history, etc.) Truly we have failed to learn from past mistakes.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    Modern JavaScript frameworks have support for this and a result of Flash's experience is that browsers have specific APIs for that ... however: each new generation of developers has to learn :)
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Yes but JavaScript generations are like every six months. I took a 3 year break from anything Frontend. Felt like I had gone through a time machine.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Without the Flash tooling capabilities, though.
defaultcompany 6y ago
Speaking of Flash and alternatives to CSS there was a whole UI language built to run in the Flash player called Flex which had an amazing layout engine. You could - in code - define your own layouts which could then be used on any components. I've been wishing someone would port this to javascript for years. Imagine if developers could have just created FlexBox when it was needed fifteen years ago instead of waiting on W3C.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Just like CSS grid has its roots in WPF grid model.
acdha 6y ago
> It was the player that wasn’t great. And the standard libraries, cross-platform support, and industry-trailing IDE. They didn't even have a stable debugger for years but that didn't stop them from charging $800/seat to see if they'd fixed any of the problems.

rimliu 6y ago

I wish everyone in web developemnt stopped only looking at the thing that makes it easier for themselves and start to focus on what's best for the users.

schwartzworld 6y ago
Flash websites were awesome. the player needed work, but for end users there web was a much more interesting and diverse place
- cnasc 6y ago
  Unless you used a screen reader
  - woodrowbarlow 6y ago
    or, frankly, any of the features provided by your internet browser. back button, bookmark, open link in new window... (i'm interpreting 'flash websites' as 'websites made in flash'. i'm not referring to websites that contained flash applets.)
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    True, although if Flash had stuck around long enough (i.e. if iPhone hadn't signed it's death warrant) I'm sure eventually we could have come up with a solution for a11y. Most of the flash sites that I really remember consuming were actually very simple documents that relied on flash for presentation, so it would be easy to provide a screen reader friendly version of the content. Also a lot of flash content was cartoons and games which don't lend themselves to screen readers anyway.

johannes1234321 6y ago

Yes, Flash was a great tool to create stuff. (I only used it in Macromedia times) This however also lead to an abuse and for a while you had websites, fully in flash which broke so many things (deep linking/bookamrks, browser history, etc.) combined with unintuitive navigation and slowness due to animations ... plain overuse of an otherwise good technology.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> broke so many things (deep linking/bookamrks, browser history, etc.) Truly we have failed to learn from past mistakes.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  Modern JavaScript frameworks have support for this and a result of Flash's experience is that browsers have specific APIs for that ... however: each new generation of developers has to learn :)
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Yes but JavaScript generations are like every six months. I took a 3 year break from anything Frontend. Felt like I had gone through a time machine.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Without the Flash tooling capabilities, though.

defaultcompany 6y ago

Speaking of Flash and alternatives to CSS there was a whole UI language built to run in the Flash player called Flex which had an amazing layout engine. You could - in code - define your own layouts which could then be used on any components. I've been wishing someone would port this to javascript for years. Imagine if developers could have just created FlexBox when it was needed fifteen years ago instead of waiting on W3C.

pjmlp 6y ago
Just like CSS grid has its roots in WPF grid model.

acdha 6y ago

> It was the player that wasn’t great. And the standard libraries, cross-platform support, and industry-trailing IDE. They didn't even have a stable debugger for years but that didn't stop them from charging $800/seat to see if they'd fixed any of the problems.