3 ms·

I believe the "if you live a good life you go to heaven" is a common tenet of many Christian denominations since the Vatican Council. At least, I recall my rel

I believe the "if you live a good life you go to heaven" is a common tenet of many Christian denominations since the Vatican Council. At least, I recall my religion teacher (a catholic priest, we have such a class in public schools in Italy tho they vary in content and quality) telling us that some decades ago. You do not go to heaven if you're an atheist tho, as _denying_ there is something divine puts you in the bad list, sorry.

lukejduncan 6y ago
Definitely not on the Protestant branch of things.
kmonsen 6y ago
I mean does it really matter what the church says? The important part is what God actually thinks here and that seems to be very different depending on who you ask.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  To be more precise, what matters is not so much what God/gods "think", but what they want us to do. In this case, the textual foundation for Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." Assuming these really are the words of Jesus, they leave very little for interpretation, no matter what Vaticanum II says.
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Only if your priest disallows other interpretations. Here people can disagree what constitutes faith. Many Christians believe that God is everything good, so if you share good values, it's thinkable you are effectively a decent Christian. But yeah, for Protestants faith is formality: if you only believe in these and these letters and remain a miserable sinner, you get a ticket to heaven.
  - sorokod 6y ago
    These can not be the words of Jesus since the language of these words did not exist at the time (assuming a deity that doesn't express itself in yet unformed languages).
    - vabadus 6y ago
      Is this better? "ὁ πιστεύσας καὶ βαπτισθεὶς σωθήσεται, ὁ δὲ ἀπιστήσας κατακριθήσεται." That's the closest we can get, although Jesus would have assumedly spoken these words in Aramaic, not Greek. Source: http://bibletranslation.ws/trans/markwgrk.pdf http://bibletranslation.ws/trans/markwgrk.pdf
- Y_Y 6y ago
  God would hardly allow the church to go around spreading falsehoods, would He? Surely the various Popes/Patriarchs/Grand Wizards are just a mouthpiece for the almighty and all of his confusing and inconsistent proclamations.
golem14 6y ago
That's a fairly new development BTW, I believe 2005-2007. Before that, unbaptized "good" souls were collecting dust in limbo.

lukejduncan 6y ago

Definitely not on the Protestant branch of things.

kmonsen 6y ago

I mean does it really matter what the church says? The important part is what God actually thinks here and that seems to be very different depending on who you ask.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
To be more precise, what matters is not so much what God/gods "think", but what they want us to do. In this case, the textual foundation for Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." Assuming these really are the words of Jesus, they leave very little for interpretation, no matter what Vaticanum II says.
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  Only if your priest disallows other interpretations. Here people can disagree what constitutes faith. Many Christians believe that God is everything good, so if you share good values, it's thinkable you are effectively a decent Christian. But yeah, for Protestants faith is formality: if you only believe in these and these letters and remain a miserable sinner, you get a ticket to heaven.
- sorokod 6y ago
  These can not be the words of Jesus since the language of these words did not exist at the time (assuming a deity that doesn't express itself in yet unformed languages).
  - vabadus 6y ago
    Is this better? "ὁ πιστεύσας καὶ βαπτισθεὶς σωθήσεται, ὁ δὲ ἀπιστήσας κατακριθήσεται." That's the closest we can get, although Jesus would have assumedly spoken these words in Aramaic, not Greek. Source: http://bibletranslation.ws/trans/markwgrk.pdf http://bibletranslation.ws/trans/markwgrk.pdf
Y_Y 6y ago
God would hardly allow the church to go around spreading falsehoods, would He? Surely the various Popes/Patriarchs/Grand Wizards are just a mouthpiece for the almighty and all of his confusing and inconsistent proclamations.

golem14 6y ago

That's a fairly new development BTW, I believe 2005-2007. Before that, unbaptized "good" souls were collecting dust in limbo.