4 ms·

Federal law enforcement agents to Chicago, Albuquerque

30 points by colinprince 6y ago

bitdotdash 6y ago
Meddling in local enforcement, despite push-back from state and local authorities? What could possible go wrong...
- zdragnar 6y ago
  Considering that, at least in chicago, the police requested federal assistance, it seems like the pushback is more of a political game played by politicians than the reality on the ground.
  - TetOn 6y ago
    The police union requested this. To my knowledge, they don't have any authority whatsoever to call out state national guard or federal troops into a state. Would be as meaningless as me declaring my private property an independent nation state.
    - robotron 6y ago
      Yes, it was the union head in Chicago.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    But the police don't get to make that request. Did the city government (mayor and/or city council) request federal assistance? (I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.)
    - SaltyLemonZest 6y ago
      It's unclear whether the mayor requested it, but she delivered a speech yesterday saying she welcomes it as long as the agents aren't militarized.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > the mayor requested it, but she delivered a speech yesterday saying she welcomes it as long as the agents aren't militarized. The mayor is well aware of the practice being employed, and this is a way of saying it is distinctly unwelcome without minimizing the issues being used as a pretext for it.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Considering that, at least in chicago, the police requested federal assistance The police union did, but in any case, for very good reasons of federalism, the normal and proper route for such a request for federal intervention in local civil order other than as a result of open rebellion by the State government against the Union is from the Governor of the State (who will consider the need for such a request in light of and assure coordination with any state response available and in use, such as state-level law enforcement, National Guard, etc.), not from the local police command.
Vivtek 6y ago
"Sending federal agents to help localities is not uncommon." Sending them against the express will of the localities, however, is probably illegal.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Depends. If I understand correctly, sending them to protect federal property is legit, regardless of the will of the localities. Sending them to help enforce local laws, without the desire/permission of the locality, is not.
faitswulff 6y ago
A “record rise in violence after the shooting death of a young boy” is wording that the reader should perhaps scrutinize more carefully, considering the justification for sending these federal agents has consisted mainly of graffiti and property damage: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
schaefer 6y ago
Donald is openly dehumanizing US citizens that have political views contrary to his own (and indeed, contrary to HIM). But more than that, he is using Federal Officers to inflict violence on protestors. True, some protestors have been violent(mostly to property, but not entirely), but Federal agents are also using force on clearly peaceful protestors. As a US citizen myself, I am speechless. How is this our reality? But it doesn't go without my notice that this is EXACTLY the treatment that African Americans are protesting. And now, allies of the BLM movement are subject some of the same dehumanizing and violent treatment from law enforcement that we are protesting against, regardless of race.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > As a US citizen myself, I am speechless. How is this our reality? This is exactly how many Russians felt when they saw the constitution effectively annulled in 2003. Back then nobody could've believed the USSR can return, and people were laughing at the few who were smart to freak out about that. Democracy is a really fragile thing. It really can disappear overnight. One day, you wake up, turn on the news, and you drop your jaw. Just like this.
- r00fus 6y ago
  It happens when the oversight has been pared back over the years and finally outright ignored. It happens when an administration decides to exploit those vulnerabilities and "norms" (ie, loopholes because there isn't an actual law that holds a government officials accountable).
- vayeate 6y ago
  99% of the non-property violence has been conducted by the police
- diffrinse 6y ago
  The article highlights the warrant and application of Feds is to investigate and eliminate gangs, not the protests. It might end up targeting protestors anyway, but they're using the cover of Chicago's annual summer murder rate spike (which has been going on since I was a child in the early 90s at least).
zoomablemind 6y ago
Out of curiosity, political aspect aside, who is going to foot the bill for this added effort, the Fed govt or it will be somehow forwarded to the city/state or subtracted from its Fed funding, like for some kind of mandatory service?
- diffrinse 6y ago
  Maybe this is where USPS' money went

30 points by colinprince 6y ago

bitdotdash 6y ago

Meddling in local enforcement, despite push-back from state and local authorities? What could possible go wrong...

zdragnar 6y ago
Considering that, at least in chicago, the police requested federal assistance, it seems like the pushback is more of a political game played by politicians than the reality on the ground.
- TetOn 6y ago
  The police union requested this. To my knowledge, they don't have any authority whatsoever to call out state national guard or federal troops into a state. Would be as meaningless as me declaring my private property an independent nation state.
  - robotron 6y ago
    Yes, it was the union head in Chicago.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  But the police don't get to make that request. Did the city government (mayor and/or city council) request federal assistance? (I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.)
  - SaltyLemonZest 6y ago
    It's unclear whether the mayor requested it, but she delivered a speech yesterday saying she welcomes it as long as the agents aren't militarized.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > the mayor requested it, but she delivered a speech yesterday saying she welcomes it as long as the agents aren't militarized. The mayor is well aware of the practice being employed, and this is a way of saying it is distinctly unwelcome without minimizing the issues being used as a pretext for it.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Considering that, at least in chicago, the police requested federal assistance The police union did, but in any case, for very good reasons of federalism, the normal and proper route for such a request for federal intervention in local civil order other than as a result of open rebellion by the State government against the Union is from the Governor of the State (who will consider the need for such a request in light of and assure coordination with any state response available and in use, such as state-level law enforcement, National Guard, etc.), not from the local police command.

Vivtek 6y ago

"Sending federal agents to help localities is not uncommon." Sending them against the express will of the localities, however, is probably illegal.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Depends. If I understand correctly, sending them to protect federal property is legit, regardless of the will of the localities. Sending them to help enforce local laws, without the desire/permission of the locality, is not.

faitswulff 6y ago

A “record rise in violence after the shooting death of a young boy” is wording that the reader should perhaps scrutinize more carefully, considering the justification for sending these federal agents has consisted mainly of graffiti and property damage: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

schaefer 6y ago

Donald is openly dehumanizing US citizens that have political views contrary to his own (and indeed, contrary to HIM). But more than that, he is using Federal Officers to inflict violence on protestors. True, some protestors have been violent(mostly to property, but not entirely), but Federal agents are also using force on clearly peaceful protestors. As a US citizen myself, I am speechless. How is this our reality? But it doesn't go without my notice that this is EXACTLY the treatment that African Americans are protesting. And now, allies of the BLM movement are subject some of the same dehumanizing and violent treatment from law enforcement that we are protesting against, regardless of race.

baybal2 6y ago
> As a US citizen myself, I am speechless. How is this our reality? This is exactly how many Russians felt when they saw the constitution effectively annulled in 2003. Back then nobody could've believed the USSR can return, and people were laughing at the few who were smart to freak out about that. Democracy is a really fragile thing. It really can disappear overnight. One day, you wake up, turn on the news, and you drop your jaw. Just like this.
r00fus 6y ago
It happens when the oversight has been pared back over the years and finally outright ignored. It happens when an administration decides to exploit those vulnerabilities and "norms" (ie, loopholes because there isn't an actual law that holds a government officials accountable).
vayeate 6y ago
99% of the non-property violence has been conducted by the police
diffrinse 6y ago
The article highlights the warrant and application of Feds is to investigate and eliminate gangs, not the protests. It might end up targeting protestors anyway, but they're using the cover of Chicago's annual summer murder rate spike (which has been going on since I was a child in the early 90s at least).

zoomablemind 6y ago

Out of curiosity, political aspect aside, who is going to foot the bill for this added effort, the Fed govt or it will be somehow forwarded to the city/state or subtracted from its Fed funding, like for some kind of mandatory service?

diffrinse 6y ago
Maybe this is where USPS' money went