4 ms·

Good points. I think the thing that irks people is Apple's bullying. They just don't seem to be operating in good faith. For instance, from the report, here are

by mthoms 6y ago

Good points. I think the thing that irks people is Apple's bullying. They just don't seem to be operating in good faith. For instance, from the report, here are Apple's "Anti-circumvention Policies": >2. “Multiplatform Services: Apps that operate across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or your web site,... provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase.” Apple is dictating what I can tell my customers in "general communications" where Apple is not involved. That's not a free market, it's abusive. If a customer comes to my site from a search I should be able to say "Here are the purchase options. Please note that Apple takes 30% if you purchase through their store. If you purchase direct, our processing fees are only %2.5". In that statement, I'm not making any judgement call on whether Apple is good or bad. I'm simply stating a verifiable fact. If the value proposition of Apple's store has benefits to the consumer then its merits should stand on their own. For the record, I believe the App store offers many solid benefits to consumers. I'm just saying we should let the consumer decide if the benefits of the App store outweigh their other chosen criteria. TL;DR Apple has no business inserting itself in my customer communications on my own website so long as I only state facts. Edit: This is from the perspective of say, an eBook author or MacOS developer. I realize that iOS apps can only be purchased through Apple so the point there is moot.

Despegar 6y ago
>Apple is dictating what I can tell my customers in "general communications" where Apple is not involved. That's not a free market, it's abusive. If a customer comes to my site from a search I should be able to say "Here are the purchase options. Please note that Apple takes 30% if you purchase through their store. If you purchase direct, our processing fees are only %2.5". Everyone that argues against the rule that says you can't advertise in your apps ways to bypass the App Store for payment are basically arguing that they should be able to free ride on the platform, something discussed in this study. >In addition, for their business model to be successful, digital marketplaces often have to rely on rules that prevent customers from free riding on their services. Free riding involves buyers and/or sellers avoiding fees after the platform has helped connect them, which means that the platform is not compensated for the successful match and the use of the platform’s technology, tools, and services to facilitate and promote valuable transactions between buyers and sellers. A review of the policies and rules of large app stores and online marketplaces that distribute physical goods and services — marketplaces for which the risk for free riding is particularly high — shows that digital marketplaces routinely forbid behaviors aimed at avoiding fees. >In addition to the commission on paid apps and in-app purchases of digital content, services, and subscriptions, Apple imposes guidelines that govern the use of the App Store. Among those policies are rules about in-app purchases to prevent users and developers from free riding on Apple’s App Store services and investments. Apps cannot explicitly steer app users away from in-app purchases — for example, by providing external links that bypass the App Store.
- mthoms 6y ago
  My example was about communications with customers who come to me without Apple's help. Such as on a website that I paid for, and the customer comes to me via a Google search ad (or good SEO) that I paid for. Ultimately, a mobile app [0] will be purchased through Apple. Should they get a commission? Of course. But since they didn't provide the "discovery" or lead generation it should be much less. [0] I'll use mobile apps in this particular example because it's less ambiguous.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    How are we to determine who came from what source the customer came from? Offer them a choice to say, "I found this book on my own and just want to buy it here, discount = -10%"?
    - mthoms 6y ago
      Referral links have been around since the late to mid 90's.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  That part is not going to be popular among developers, who understand that Apple "free rides" off of them too–without them there would be no platform. There are some "free" apps that are literally cornerstones of the iPhone, to the point where people might switch to a competitor if they didn't exist.
supernova87a 6y ago
Plenty of apps themselves do what you seem to be classifying as none of their business to intervene in. Doordash or other delivery apps tell restaurants they can't hint to their customers to order outside of the app. In fact they monitor communications with restaurants to ensure it's not happening, which is pretty gross. Uber/Lyft don't allow drivers to see who's asking for a ride and then ask the customer to pay outside of the app. If you're an eBook platform app, are you going to allow authors to hawk their books with a first teaser sentence "feel free to buy this eBook from my personal site instead of on this app"? I wouldn't say Apple is "inserting itself" into a transaction where it has no business. The app developer agreed that in offering the app, Apple's terms would be agreed to, and those include not offering or suggesting methods to circumvent the financial transaction that the app is directly relevant to.
- mthoms 6y ago
  My example was specifically about a customer coming to me directly as first point of contact, and not using Apple's platform or resources in any way [0]. I also mentioned nothing about price. I only mentioned communicating that the commission exists. [0] Edit: I realize that my TL;DR above didn't capture this important nuance, I've updated it.

by mthoms 6y ago

Despegar 6y ago

>Apple is dictating what I can tell my customers in "general communications" where Apple is not involved. That's not a free market, it's abusive. If a customer comes to my site from a search I should be able to say "Here are the purchase options. Please note that Apple takes 30% if you purchase through their store. If you purchase direct, our processing fees are only %2.5". Everyone that argues against the rule that says you can't advertise in your apps ways to bypass the App Store for payment are basically arguing that they should be able to free ride on the platform, something discussed in this study. >In addition, for their business model to be successful, digital marketplaces often have to rely on rules that prevent customers from free riding on their services. Free riding involves buyers and/or sellers avoiding fees after the platform has helped connect them, which means that the platform is not compensated for the successful match and the use of the platform’s technology, tools, and services to facilitate and promote valuable transactions between buyers and sellers. A review of the policies and rules of large app stores and online marketplaces that distribute physical goods and services — marketplaces for which the risk for free riding is particularly high — shows that digital marketplaces routinely forbid behaviors aimed at avoiding fees. >In addition to the commission on paid apps and in-app purchases of digital content, services, and subscriptions, Apple imposes guidelines that govern the use of the App Store. Among those policies are rules about in-app purchases to prevent users and developers from free riding on Apple’s App Store services and investments. Apps cannot explicitly steer app users away from in-app purchases — for example, by providing external links that bypass the App Store.

mthoms 6y ago
My example was about communications with customers who come to me without Apple's help. Such as on a website that I paid for, and the customer comes to me via a Google search ad (or good SEO) that I paid for. Ultimately, a mobile app [0] will be purchased through Apple. Should they get a commission? Of course. But since they didn't provide the "discovery" or lead generation it should be much less. [0] I'll use mobile apps in this particular example because it's less ambiguous.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  How are we to determine who came from what source the customer came from? Offer them a choice to say, "I found this book on my own and just want to buy it here, discount = -10%"?
  - mthoms 6y ago
    Referral links have been around since the late to mid 90's.
saagarjha 6y ago
That part is not going to be popular among developers, who understand that Apple "free rides" off of them too–without them there would be no platform. There are some "free" apps that are literally cornerstones of the iPhone, to the point where people might switch to a competitor if they didn't exist.

supernova87a 6y ago

Plenty of apps themselves do what you seem to be classifying as none of their business to intervene in. Doordash or other delivery apps tell restaurants they can't hint to their customers to order outside of the app. In fact they monitor communications with restaurants to ensure it's not happening, which is pretty gross. Uber/Lyft don't allow drivers to see who's asking for a ride and then ask the customer to pay outside of the app. If you're an eBook platform app, are you going to allow authors to hawk their books with a first teaser sentence "feel free to buy this eBook from my personal site instead of on this app"? I wouldn't say Apple is "inserting itself" into a transaction where it has no business. The app developer agreed that in offering the app, Apple's terms would be agreed to, and those include not offering or suggesting methods to circumvent the financial transaction that the app is directly relevant to.

mthoms 6y ago
My example was specifically about a customer coming to me directly as first point of contact, and not using Apple's platform or resources in any way [0]. I also mentioned nothing about price. I only mentioned communicating that the commission exists. [0] Edit: I realize that my TL;DR above didn't capture this important nuance, I've updated it.