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The 'android' that you get from your phone vendor definitely isn't open source. The AOSP project is and the distro from your vendor will have parts of it that c

The 'android' that you get from your phone vendor definitely isn't open source. The AOSP project is and the distro from your vendor will have parts of it that can be traced back to the source. But the android ecosystem as a whole is not 'open source' and not 'open' like people like you tell about. Almost all access is due to hacks and bugs, not because the boot loader and the OS came with the option for user access on the inside.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> The 'android' that you get from your phone vendor definitely isn't open source. But it's so, so far ahead of iOS in openness. You can sideload apps. You can spin up Android in a VM. You can buy Android devices with unlocked bootloaders and install your own roms or drivers or kernel modules or whatever else. The system can be made yours to command. iOS doesn't even let me run my own code in userland.
- oneplane 6y ago
  That's somewhat tangential to the item at hand isn't it? We are talking about open source, not about hackability or the rather vague term of 'openness'. One could argue that a device that is usable to a lot of people is 'open' and devices that all require their own teaching/learning are not.
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  > iOS doesn't even let me run my own code in userland. This has been possible for a long time. Yes, there are some hoops to jump through (7 day time limit per signing unless you pay), but to say it doesn’t allow you to run your own code is just wrong.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Limited userland code.
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      What code do you want to run that you can’t in any way? How is running that more important than the alternative?
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Code that can generate new executable pages on the fly, code that can access the various databases on my phone, code that modifies how the system applications work…I think that's fairly important and useful, especially since the alternative is…you can't do that at all? What's the issue?

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

> The 'android' that you get from your phone vendor definitely isn't open source. But it's so, so far ahead of iOS in openness. You can sideload apps. You can spin up Android in a VM. You can buy Android devices with unlocked bootloaders and install your own roms or drivers or kernel modules or whatever else. The system can be made yours to command. iOS doesn't even let me run my own code in userland.

oneplane 6y ago
That's somewhat tangential to the item at hand isn't it? We are talking about open source, not about hackability or the rather vague term of 'openness'. One could argue that a device that is usable to a lot of people is 'open' and devices that all require their own teaching/learning are not.
jsjohnst 6y ago
> iOS doesn't even let me run my own code in userland. This has been possible for a long time. Yes, there are some hoops to jump through (7 day time limit per signing unless you pay), but to say it doesn’t allow you to run your own code is just wrong.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Limited userland code.
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    What code do you want to run that you can’t in any way? How is running that more important than the alternative?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Code that can generate new executable pages on the fly, code that can access the various databases on my phone, code that modifies how the system applications work…I think that's fairly important and useful, especially since the alternative is…you can't do that at all? What's the issue?