6 ms·

Wait , I’m not that good at this game

hombre_fatal 6y ago
After playing it for over a year, I had to watch a strategy video last month to realize that you might want to keep a small deck and not always pick a card every time you can. Didn't even occur to me. I'm terrible at strategizing. To this day I can't figure out anyone other than the Ironclad with that power that grows his strength every turn.
- granitepail 6y ago
  I played a lot of M:tG at various times in my life, and games like Magic teach you a lot about these concepts. I would have never thought about it has I not had that experience! No shame in learning about the meta game!
  - masklinn 6y ago
    Deck-building board games are probably better teachers there. Deck-thinning is a useful strategy in mtg but it’s absolutely crucial to increase the power level & consistency of a deck in games like ascension or clank. It's also interesting that there are deck-building games which remove deck-thinning as as strategy e.g. in mystic vale your deck has a fixed number of cards, you can only fill advancement slots in your base deck[0], and you can't remove advancements. You can also acquire "permanents" (the vale cards). [0] every card has 0~1 slots filled from the base deck, and position matter, you can't put two advancements in slot 2 of a card
    - cableshaft 6y ago
      Yeah, if nothing else, those games pretty much hammer into your head that all your starting cards are garbage and you should get rid of them, at the very least, at the soonest opportunity. There's a couple of reasons you might want to hang on to them in Slay the Spire, depending on what events come up, but getting rid of them is pretty important in this game as well.
    - pdpi 6y ago
      AIUI, the creators of Slay the Spire are very active in the Netrunner community, and play-tested it thoroughly with top Netrunner players. I haven't played it before but I think it plays closer to MtG than to deck builder board games.
      - tanjtanjtanj 6y ago
        It's a deckbuilding boardgame turned into a video game with a campaign. It is far, far closer to something like Star Realms, Thunderstone, Ascension, or Dominion (All deck building games that re-implemented Dominion's deck building ideas in different ways) than it is to MTG or Netrunner. Virtually every idea in Slay the Spire other than the rogue-like addition previously existed in these deck building games.
        cableshaft 6y ago
        Maybe I don't play enough deckbuilders, but it seems like there was a decent amount of new concepts in here that didn't directly come from other games. Abilities like Innate, Retain, Ethereal, cards getting upgraded for all future encounters every time they're played, costs of the card being reduced based on something specific happening that encounter, the stances of the Watcher character in general, and all the cards surrounding that idea, The orb idea for the Defect in general and all cards revolving around that idea, cards giving you bonuses if it kills a character, sometimes permanently, etc. Even something as basic as all the cards costing energy to spend and you have only a certain amount of energy every turn (that can be increased by other methods), forcing you to prioritize what to play, as opposed to just playing everything you draw and only the order matters, like in most deckbuilders, changes the feel quite a bit. They were able to take advantage of the video game concept (allowing cards to morph within an encounter and over the course of multiple encounters) and put it to good effect. Technically you could do that with a board game with stickers or something, but it's a lot more effective here, and only permanent for a run as opposed to forever. That being said, they did take a ton of ideas from existing games. It just feels a lot more inventive than most deckbuilding games I've played, where most of them feel like some combination of Ascension and Dominion, with little to differentiate it.
- ssully 6y ago
  I am not very good at card/deck building games, but I assumed they wanted you to cull your deck when I noticed they make you use gold to do so. After realizing that, I started trying to keep a lean and focused deck. I only play casually, and I still haven't won, so my strategy still might not be good!
  - Kiro 6y ago
    I thought that was meant to be used on curses (yes, I'm bad at the game).
    - masklinn 6y ago
      It can be used on curses but usually you want to get rid of either the base deck or cards which don’t gel. If you add powerful cards the power of the deck increases, but if you remove weak cards it also increases, and the consistency increases further: if you have 15 cards 10 of which are starter every hand will average 4 starter and 1 new card, but if you have 10 cards 5 of which are starter it’ll be split 3/2 ou 2/3 on average.
    - chousuke 6y ago
      The basic cards are pretty bad. You can't play your full hand most of the time anyway, so cutting them makes it more likely that you'll draw the better cards. This is also why Snecko Eye (the relic that gives +2 draw every turn and randomizes card cost) is arguably the best boss relic. Even if you only get to play one 3 cost card, it's more likely to be the best card in your deck.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > This is also why Snecko Eye (the relic that gives +2 draw every turn and randomizes card cost) is arguably the best boss relic. Even if you only get to play one 3 cost card, it's more likely to be the best card in your deck. I can't agree with this. Snecko Eye is very strong, but playing a 3-cost card will cripple you. It's strong because you draw a lot of cheap cards -- the lesson of Snecko Eye is that playing several cards is better than playing one card, even if the cards you got to play were chosen randomly.
speedmagnet 6y ago
Dropping your starter attack and defend cards after getting better alternatives is a good tip for new players, but the number one factor in winning in my experience is selecting the right card combos and synergies. Identify possible combos early and pick future cards to build on those strategies. If a card doesn't fit in your deck skip it. Sometimes you'll pick a combo card early and not come across any synergistic cards and lose or have to pivot strategies, it just happens. Having a smaller deck with only the cards you want will usually help though.
- chousuke 6y ago
  Aiming for synergies can be a trap, though. Sometimes the correct pick is a bad card that has anti-synergy with your current deck, because it solves an immediate problem. For example, at the start of a run you generally should pick any attack better than a strike (almost all of them) even over super powerful late-game scaling cards and try to kill the Elites to get relics and build power. After the first few runs through the Spire, you'll generally know what you will be facing, and what you need to do is pick cards that cover your bases against those potential upcoming fights.
  - moomin 6y ago
    Indeed, best advice I can give for people having trouble is: do anything you need to do to survive Act 1 and kill 2-3 elites. After that you've got a lot more flexibility.
  - speedmagnet 6y ago
    Good analysis. You're right. I'm no expert at the game, but killing elites is a great tip and not obvious to a new player. All of my most successful winning decks have been built off of synergies though.
    - TheOperator 6y ago
      This depends on what you mean by success. If your aim is to end up steamrolling hard enemies with a broken deck and getting a large high score than synergies are worth going for. If your goal is to eek by with a win as often as possible there is too much variance in betting the farm on being offered certain cards in the future.

After playing it for over a year, I had to watch a strategy video last month to realize that you might want to keep a small deck and not always pick a card every time you can. Didn't even occur to me. I'm terrible at strategizing. To this day I can't figure out anyone other than the Ironclad with that power that grows his strength every turn.

granitepail 6y ago
I played a lot of M:tG at various times in my life, and games like Magic teach you a lot about these concepts. I would have never thought about it has I not had that experience! No shame in learning about the meta game!
- masklinn 6y ago
  Deck-building board games are probably better teachers there. Deck-thinning is a useful strategy in mtg but it’s absolutely crucial to increase the power level & consistency of a deck in games like ascension or clank. It's also interesting that there are deck-building games which remove deck-thinning as as strategy e.g. in mystic vale your deck has a fixed number of cards, you can only fill advancement slots in your base deck[0], and you can't remove advancements. You can also acquire "permanents" (the vale cards). [0] every card has 0~1 slots filled from the base deck, and position matter, you can't put two advancements in slot 2 of a card
  - cableshaft 6y ago
    Yeah, if nothing else, those games pretty much hammer into your head that all your starting cards are garbage and you should get rid of them, at the very least, at the soonest opportunity. There's a couple of reasons you might want to hang on to them in Slay the Spire, depending on what events come up, but getting rid of them is pretty important in this game as well.
  - pdpi 6y ago
    AIUI, the creators of Slay the Spire are very active in the Netrunner community, and play-tested it thoroughly with top Netrunner players. I haven't played it before but I think it plays closer to MtG than to deck builder board games.
    - tanjtanjtanj 6y ago
      It's a deckbuilding boardgame turned into a video game with a campaign. It is far, far closer to something like Star Realms, Thunderstone, Ascension, or Dominion (All deck building games that re-implemented Dominion's deck building ideas in different ways) than it is to MTG or Netrunner. Virtually every idea in Slay the Spire other than the rogue-like addition previously existed in these deck building games.
      - cableshaft 6y ago
        Maybe I don't play enough deckbuilders, but it seems like there was a decent amount of new concepts in here that didn't directly come from other games. Abilities like Innate, Retain, Ethereal, cards getting upgraded for all future encounters every time they're played, costs of the card being reduced based on something specific happening that encounter, the stances of the Watcher character in general, and all the cards surrounding that idea, The orb idea for the Defect in general and all cards revolving around that idea, cards giving you bonuses if it kills a character, sometimes permanently, etc. Even something as basic as all the cards costing energy to spend and you have only a certain amount of energy every turn (that can be increased by other methods), forcing you to prioritize what to play, as opposed to just playing everything you draw and only the order matters, like in most deckbuilders, changes the feel quite a bit. They were able to take advantage of the video game concept (allowing cards to morph within an encounter and over the course of multiple encounters) and put it to good effect. Technically you could do that with a board game with stickers or something, but it's a lot more effective here, and only permanent for a run as opposed to forever. That being said, they did take a ton of ideas from existing games. It just feels a lot more inventive than most deckbuilding games I've played, where most of them feel like some combination of Ascension and Dominion, with little to differentiate it.
ssully 6y ago
I am not very good at card/deck building games, but I assumed they wanted you to cull your deck when I noticed they make you use gold to do so. After realizing that, I started trying to keep a lean and focused deck. I only play casually, and I still haven't won, so my strategy still might not be good!
- Kiro 6y ago
  I thought that was meant to be used on curses (yes, I'm bad at the game).
  - masklinn 6y ago
    It can be used on curses but usually you want to get rid of either the base deck or cards which don’t gel. If you add powerful cards the power of the deck increases, but if you remove weak cards it also increases, and the consistency increases further: if you have 15 cards 10 of which are starter every hand will average 4 starter and 1 new card, but if you have 10 cards 5 of which are starter it’ll be split 3/2 ou 2/3 on average.
  - chousuke 6y ago
    The basic cards are pretty bad. You can't play your full hand most of the time anyway, so cutting them makes it more likely that you'll draw the better cards. This is also why Snecko Eye (the relic that gives +2 draw every turn and randomizes card cost) is arguably the best boss relic. Even if you only get to play one 3 cost card, it's more likely to be the best card in your deck.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > This is also why Snecko Eye (the relic that gives +2 draw every turn and randomizes card cost) is arguably the best boss relic. Even if you only get to play one 3 cost card, it's more likely to be the best card in your deck. I can't agree with this. Snecko Eye is very strong, but playing a 3-cost card will cripple you. It's strong because you draw a lot of cheap cards -- the lesson of Snecko Eye is that playing several cards is better than playing one card, even if the cards you got to play were chosen randomly.

speedmagnet 6y ago

Dropping your starter attack and defend cards after getting better alternatives is a good tip for new players, but the number one factor in winning in my experience is selecting the right card combos and synergies. Identify possible combos early and pick future cards to build on those strategies. If a card doesn't fit in your deck skip it. Sometimes you'll pick a combo card early and not come across any synergistic cards and lose or have to pivot strategies, it just happens. Having a smaller deck with only the cards you want will usually help though.

chousuke 6y ago
Aiming for synergies can be a trap, though. Sometimes the correct pick is a bad card that has anti-synergy with your current deck, because it solves an immediate problem. For example, at the start of a run you generally should pick any attack better than a strike (almost all of them) even over super powerful late-game scaling cards and try to kill the Elites to get relics and build power. After the first few runs through the Spire, you'll generally know what you will be facing, and what you need to do is pick cards that cover your bases against those potential upcoming fights.
- moomin 6y ago
  Indeed, best advice I can give for people having trouble is: do anything you need to do to survive Act 1 and kill 2-3 elites. After that you've got a lot more flexibility.
- speedmagnet 6y ago
  Good analysis. You're right. I'm no expert at the game, but killing elites is a great tip and not obvious to a new player. All of my most successful winning decks have been built off of synergies though.
  - TheOperator 6y ago
    This depends on what you mean by success. If your aim is to end up steamrolling hard enemies with a broken deck and getting a large high score than synergies are worth going for. If your goal is to eek by with a win as often as possible there is too much variance in betting the farm on being offered certain cards in the future.