8 ms·

Blocking it's removal? How? Teams was installed with Office on my current system, and it pops up in Add/Remove Programs. IT Admins can prevent it from being ins

Blocking it's removal? How? Teams was installed with Office on my current system, and it pops up in Add/Remove Programs. IT Admins can prevent it from being installed with Office (and remove it from all of their machines if it has already been installed)[0]. It's not included with Windows either (just as Office isn't). And Slack isn't blocked from being installed either. What's the anti-competitive angle here, other than the OS is created by Microsoft, the IM system is created by Microsoft, the Office suite is created by Microsoft, and the licenses are often bundled? Apple would be guilty of a similar thing by shipping Messages.app and iWork with macOS, no? 0: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/teams-install#how-to-exclude-microsoft-teams-from-new-installations-of-microsoft-365-apps https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/teams-install#...

marcinzm 6y ago
Microsoft has basically a monopoly on enterprise tools such as word/excel/etc. Apple does not.
- jm4 6y ago
  There are so many more choices than there were 20 years ago. Microsoft makes a kick ass office suite. There's nothing monopolistic about it. They've been in this game longer than anyone and that's reflected in the feature set. Their products and licensing provide more value now than they have in a very long time. There's also G Suite which is pretty cool. Or you could use Libre Office. Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
    > Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing. In what areas? I see an industry with more and more consolidation. There is no longer the serious competition there once was in the field of office suites or certain kinds of creative software, which is really sad.
    - jm4 6y ago
      When was there competition in the office suite space? In the early 90's? Or the law firms that continued to use a stagnating WordPerfect for way too long after everyone else standardized on MS Office? I entered computing at a time when there was basically nothing else available. Mac was trash and way past its glory days. Linux was a toy that no one would use seriously. The hardware support was non-existent and if you wanted to get online you often had to go buy a new modem. The other players today didn't exist yet. It's true there is consolidation, but there are also options which didn't exist at all not too long ago.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    >There's nothing monopolistic about it. By definition, a monopoly is a majorly dominant market position, it says nothing about how it was achieved or the quality of the product. >Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing. Things being worse in the past is not a reason to not push for further improvement. By your argument we should stop all research and progress since things used to be worse so we should be happy enough with the status quo.
    - jm4 6y ago
      That's a distortion of what I said. If you want to have a debate about it, at least be intellectually honest.
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Isn't G Suite fairly popular these days as well? What's the market share for these productivity suites?
  - whereistimbo 6y ago
    According to https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 Google holds more marketshare with G Suite with 59.91%, compared to Microsoft Office 365 with 39.96%
    - olyjohn 6y ago
      Yeah you’re talking Office 365. Let’s bundle in all the companies using on premise Office (2012, 2016, 2019, etc) and I bet the numbers are flipped drastically.
      - athms 6y ago
        Office 365 is a subscription service for both on-prem and cloud. It would be pointless to include the old Office seats since the conversation is about bundling Teams with Office, and that is only done with the Office 365 offering.
- addicted 6y ago
  Google Docs/Sheets? I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more google docs/sheets created on certain days of the year than there are Word/Excel documents.
- whereistimbo 6y ago
  No, according to https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 Google holds more marketshare with G Suite with 59.91%, compared to Microsoft Office 365 with 39.96%
  - mtVessel 6y ago
    That's only looking at O365, the cloud-based version of Office. Not all companies have migrated to the cloud version yet. If you look at all versions of Office, some sources claim Microsoft has 90% of the Office Suite market. I'm not linking to any, because I don't know which, if any, are trustworthy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
annoyingnoob 6y ago
As a person that sets direction for IT in an organization that uses Office 365, I can say that I didn't appreciate that MS forced Teams on us. And the controls that you mentioned were not available from day 1. I don't support Slack here but MS really forced Teams on us like it or not.
- pmontra 6y ago
  I'm not familiar with Office licensing. Do you have to pay more because they bundled Teams (maybe) or do you have to use it? (that would be surprising) Anyway, at least you can self host Exchange. Slack is centralized.
  - addicted 6y ago
    Teams replaces Lync/Skype for Business which are gonna reach EOL soon. I’m guessing that’s what they mean by it being forced upon their users.
    - annoyingnoob 6y ago
      Right we were using Skype. Then one day I got an email about Microsoft moving us to Teams. I was able to delay the Teams roll out by 1 month but I could not prevent us being moved to Teams. Skype was part of the Office 365 level that we subscribe to and we were using it. MS replaced it with Teams. Honestly, Teams is better than Skype. But it wasn't until covid forced everyone home that we really started using Teams, that first week was painful.
      - addicted44 6y ago
        I was fortunate in that I moved my team to Teams (I still find the name terrible) well before MS put a mandate out. So our folks were comfortable once the MS EOL statement came out and the company started moving everyone over. Everyone else had quite a bit of a struggle for a week or so though. On the plus side, I think there were very few complaints after a couple of weeks. Which probably had a lot more to do with how bad Skype for Business was (much worse than Lync) than how good Teams was (it was still fairly unpolished at the time...it's much better now...MS has been adding features and fixing issues rapidly).
radley 6y ago
> It's not included with Windows While it may not be included in the OS, it is certainly promoted in Windows. I saw a full-size pop-up ad in Windows telling me to install Teams. I did not have Office installed.
waddlesworth 6y ago
For me, Microsoft Teams installed itself one day, unprompted. In order to remove it, I uninstalled it. The following day, it came back. It turns out you have to remove both Microsoft Teams and something I think was called "Teams Machine-Wide Installer." Only then would it stay removed.
- smileybarry 6y ago
  > It turns out you have to remove both Microsoft Teams and something I think was called "Teams Machine-Wide Installer." Isn't that because your org chose to deploy Teams, though? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/msi-deployment#:~:text=When%20you%20set%20this%20parameter,admin%20credentials%20on%20the%20computer https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/msi-deployme....

marcinzm 6y ago

Microsoft has basically a monopoly on enterprise tools such as word/excel/etc. Apple does not.

jm4 6y ago
There are so many more choices than there were 20 years ago. Microsoft makes a kick ass office suite. There's nothing monopolistic about it. They've been in this game longer than anyone and that's reflected in the feature set. Their products and licensing provide more value now than they have in a very long time. There's also G Suite which is pretty cool. Or you could use Libre Office. Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing.
- TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
  > Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing. In what areas? I see an industry with more and more consolidation. There is no longer the serious competition there once was in the field of office suites or certain kinds of creative software, which is really sad.
  - jm4 6y ago
    When was there competition in the office suite space? In the early 90's? Or the law firms that continued to use a stagnating WordPerfect for way too long after everyone else standardized on MS Office? I entered computing at a time when there was basically nothing else available. Mac was trash and way past its glory days. Linux was a toy that no one would use seriously. The hardware support was non-existent and if you wanted to get online you often had to go buy a new modem. The other players today didn't exist yet. It's true there is consolidation, but there are also options which didn't exist at all not too long ago.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  >There's nothing monopolistic about it. By definition, a monopoly is a majorly dominant market position, it says nothing about how it was achieved or the quality of the product. >Anyone complaining about monopolies today has no idea how bad things actually were in the late 90's to early 00,s. We have more high quality products from more vendors and better interoperability than probably any other time in the history of computing. Things being worse in the past is not a reason to not push for further improvement. By your argument we should stop all research and progress since things used to be worse so we should be happy enough with the status quo.
  - jm4 6y ago
    That's a distortion of what I said. If you want to have a debate about it, at least be intellectually honest.
TulliusCicero 6y ago
Isn't G Suite fairly popular these days as well? What's the market share for these productivity suites?
- whereistimbo 6y ago
  According to https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 Google holds more marketshare with G Suite with 59.91%, compared to Microsoft Office 365 with 39.96%
  - olyjohn 6y ago
    Yeah you’re talking Office 365. Let’s bundle in all the companies using on premise Office (2012, 2016, 2019, etc) and I bet the numbers are flipped drastically.
    - athms 6y ago
      Office 365 is a subscription service for both on-prem and cloud. It would be pointless to include the old Office seats since the conversation is about bundling Teams with Office, and that is only done with the Office 365 offering.
addicted 6y ago
Google Docs/Sheets? I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more google docs/sheets created on certain days of the year than there are Word/Excel documents.
whereistimbo 6y ago
No, according to https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/office-suites--370 Google holds more marketshare with G Suite with 59.91%, compared to Microsoft Office 365 with 39.96%
- mtVessel 6y ago
  That's only looking at O365, the cloud-based version of Office. Not all companies have migrated to the cloud version yet. If you look at all versions of Office, some sources claim Microsoft has 90% of the Office Suite market. I'm not linking to any, because I don't know which, if any, are trustworthy.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

annoyingnoob 6y ago

As a person that sets direction for IT in an organization that uses Office 365, I can say that I didn't appreciate that MS forced Teams on us. And the controls that you mentioned were not available from day 1. I don't support Slack here but MS really forced Teams on us like it or not.

pmontra 6y ago
I'm not familiar with Office licensing. Do you have to pay more because they bundled Teams (maybe) or do you have to use it? (that would be surprising) Anyway, at least you can self host Exchange. Slack is centralized.
- addicted 6y ago
  Teams replaces Lync/Skype for Business which are gonna reach EOL soon. I’m guessing that’s what they mean by it being forced upon their users.
  - annoyingnoob 6y ago
    Right we were using Skype. Then one day I got an email about Microsoft moving us to Teams. I was able to delay the Teams roll out by 1 month but I could not prevent us being moved to Teams. Skype was part of the Office 365 level that we subscribe to and we were using it. MS replaced it with Teams. Honestly, Teams is better than Skype. But it wasn't until covid forced everyone home that we really started using Teams, that first week was painful.
    - addicted44 6y ago
      I was fortunate in that I moved my team to Teams (I still find the name terrible) well before MS put a mandate out. So our folks were comfortable once the MS EOL statement came out and the company started moving everyone over. Everyone else had quite a bit of a struggle for a week or so though. On the plus side, I think there were very few complaints after a couple of weeks. Which probably had a lot more to do with how bad Skype for Business was (much worse than Lync) than how good Teams was (it was still fairly unpolished at the time...it's much better now...MS has been adding features and fixing issues rapidly).

radley 6y ago

> It's not included with Windows While it may not be included in the OS, it is certainly promoted in Windows. I saw a full-size pop-up ad in Windows telling me to install Teams. I did not have Office installed.

waddlesworth 6y ago

For me, Microsoft Teams installed itself one day, unprompted. In order to remove it, I uninstalled it. The following day, it came back. It turns out you have to remove both Microsoft Teams and something I think was called "Teams Machine-Wide Installer." Only then would it stay removed.

smileybarry 6y ago
> It turns out you have to remove both Microsoft Teams and something I think was called "Teams Machine-Wide Installer." Isn't that because your org chose to deploy Teams, though? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/msi-deployment#:~:text=When%20you%20set%20this%20parameter,admin%20credentials%20on%20the%20computer https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/msi-deployme....