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Presumably because that would push them into the hands of Russia (whether they want it or not).

by clawoo 6y ago

fit2rule 6y ago
Who are "they"? Ukraine? Ukraine rejoining the CIS would be good for everyone, except those with an interest in selling arms and fomenting war and disruption in the area. EDIT: downvoters/flaggers: are you censoring the narrative because it doesn't jive with what you've been told, or because you simply cannot tolerate a viewpoint that is counter to the one you have subsumed through authoritarian contact? Because, on the ground, things may be very different to what you've been told through the fog of war, which is being weaponised on this topic. Take that into consideration.
- evgen 6y ago
  Given the fact that the only way Russia was able to claw back a bit of Ukrainian territory was through outright invasion I think that the Ukrainian people do not share your misguided belief that it would be good for them to rejoin the CIS. In fact, other than Russian apparatchiks I do not think there is anyone in the world who thinks that this would be a good idea.
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    Well, Russia didn't take a 'bit' of Ukrainian territory, they annexed Crimea, where their nuclear base and black water navy base was located, a region for which the people of Russia have had cultural ties for over 700 years as a nation, installed a buffer zone around their military assets - and then conveniently left most of the rest of the Ukraine for the people of Ukraine. Wasn't that gracious of them? Not at all like the piles of smoking rubble, immense list of war crimes and demolished infrastructure of recent Western "police action" standards, but nevertheless, for those of us familiar with the area, not as drastic a scenario as the dis-sovereignty forced on so many nations by the West that we can't even keep count any more, not that anyone is interested... I mean, really, if you really think you know what Russia has done in Crimea, "pics or gtfo". Citizens of the West can feign indignance at this action, and call for an immediate response from their own noble, ethical military forces who can do no wrong, whatsoever, but since the Ukraine is on my doorstep I personally know a lot of Russian citizens who live in the area who are quite content with the state of affairs, and even quite a few Ukrainians too .. In fact, like I said, the only ones who are really pissed are those who had hoped to profit from the coup d'etat, i.e. war mongers, who are relatively disincentivized by the fact that yes, Russia has managed to de-escalate in the region, since they have the support of the people in the area, and therefore the provocateurs in Kiev won't be selling as many Stingers and Javelins as they'd hoped might be needed by the citizens in the region .. EDIT: there is a Western narrative which most readers are familiar with. But there is a Crimea/Russia narrative which deserves your enlightened consideration too. Do not fall so easily into the warmonger trap: the Ukraine is a lot more peaceful than Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya and Syria at the moment. Precisely because there are Russian forces in the region, not in spite of it. The 5-eyes coalition would not dare do to Crimea what it has done many, many times elsewhere: i.e. committing war crimes with impunity is not going to happen. The people of Ukraine and Crimea are very, very much more informed about what the USA's War Coalition has been doing with its illegal wars than the average American citizen. There is a great deal of validity to the idea that the CIA wanted to do to Ukraine what it did to Libya - but was thwarted by Russias Little Green Men. So, take that into account. Western Media is not the only narrative for the region. (s/Croatia/Crimea/ autocorrect brainfart)
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Go tell the passengers of MH-17 how peaceful Russia is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
      - fit2rule 6y ago
        War is hell. For every MH-17 ticket holder, there are 100,000 war orphans from the Wests' illegal wars currently being trafficked all over Europe. Lets talk to them as well.
    - dsego 6y ago
      Croatia?
    - throw1234651234 6y ago
      You also forgot about Donetsk and Luhansk.

Presumably because that would push them into the hands of Russia (whether they want it or not).

by clawoo 6y ago

Presumably because that would push them into the hands of Russia (whether they want it or not).

Who are "they"? Ukraine? Ukraine rejoining the CIS would be good for everyone, except those with an interest in selling arms and fomenting war and disruption in the area. EDIT: downvoters/flaggers: are you censoring the narrative because it doesn't jive with what you've been told, or because you simply cannot tolerate a viewpoint that is counter to the one you have subsumed through authoritarian contact? Because, on the ground, things may be very different to what you've been told through the fog of war, which is being weaponised on this topic. Take that into consideration.

evgen 6y ago
Given the fact that the only way Russia was able to claw back a bit of Ukrainian territory was through outright invasion I think that the Ukrainian people do not share your misguided belief that it would be good for them to rejoin the CIS. In fact, other than Russian apparatchiks I do not think there is anyone in the world who thinks that this would be a good idea.
- fit2rule 6y ago
  Well, Russia didn't take a 'bit' of Ukrainian territory, they annexed Crimea, where their nuclear base and black water navy base was located, a region for which the people of Russia have had cultural ties for over 700 years as a nation, installed a buffer zone around their military assets - and then conveniently left most of the rest of the Ukraine for the people of Ukraine. Wasn't that gracious of them? Not at all like the piles of smoking rubble, immense list of war crimes and demolished infrastructure of recent Western "police action" standards, but nevertheless, for those of us familiar with the area, not as drastic a scenario as the dis-sovereignty forced on so many nations by the West that we can't even keep count any more, not that anyone is interested... I mean, really, if you really think you know what Russia has done in Crimea, "pics or gtfo". Citizens of the West can feign indignance at this action, and call for an immediate response from their own noble, ethical military forces who can do no wrong, whatsoever, but since the Ukraine is on my doorstep I personally know a lot of Russian citizens who live in the area who are quite content with the state of affairs, and even quite a few Ukrainians too .. In fact, like I said, the only ones who are really pissed are those who had hoped to profit from the coup d'etat, i.e. war mongers, who are relatively disincentivized by the fact that yes, Russia has managed to de-escalate in the region, since they have the support of the people in the area, and therefore the provocateurs in Kiev won't be selling as many Stingers and Javelins as they'd hoped might be needed by the citizens in the region .. EDIT: there is a Western narrative which most readers are familiar with. But there is a Crimea/Russia narrative which deserves your enlightened consideration too. Do not fall so easily into the warmonger trap: the Ukraine is a lot more peaceful than Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya and Syria at the moment. Precisely because there are Russian forces in the region, not in spite of it. The 5-eyes coalition would not dare do to Crimea what it has done many, many times elsewhere: i.e. committing war crimes with impunity is not going to happen. The people of Ukraine and Crimea are very, very much more informed about what the USA's War Coalition has been doing with its illegal wars than the average American citizen. There is a great deal of validity to the idea that the CIA wanted to do to Ukraine what it did to Libya - but was thwarted by Russias Little Green Men. So, take that into account. Western Media is not the only narrative for the region. (s/Croatia/Crimea/ autocorrect brainfart)
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Go tell the passengers of MH-17 how peaceful Russia is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      War is hell. For every MH-17 ticket holder, there are 100,000 war orphans from the Wests' illegal wars currently being trafficked all over Europe. Lets talk to them as well.
  - dsego 6y ago
    Croatia?
  - throw1234651234 6y ago
    You also forgot about Donetsk and Luhansk.