5 ms·

NIMBYism is just Conservatism bereft of any kind of principles or values.

golemiprague 6y ago
I thought the bay area is very liberal? Japan which is a very conservative country, both in absolute terms and as a general philosophy, has very lax zoning rules and many trains running literally thorough people back yards. So I wouldn't say it is related.
- Lammy 6y ago
  The Bay Area is many things to many different types of people. Unfortunately it is also very segregated: http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?bayarea http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?bayarea
- fountainofage 6y ago
  From what I've experienced, the majority of the Bay Area is very liberal up until the point it actually costs them something - then it quickly becomes a conservative paradise. People will shout and scream and boycott to make sure you can use whatever bathroom you choose. Or make sure that everyone respects your choice of pronouns. But ask those same people to build more housing and provide ample public transit? Ask those same people to close all private schools and force people to use public school lottery systems that mingle rich, middle-class, and poor? Absolutely never. They isolate into their communities and tell the folks trying to get in that their town is now full.
FreakyT 6y ago
You’re definitely correct that NIMBYism is a form of conservatism (in the classic sense of the word), but what I find really interesting is how effectively NIMBYism crosses party lines. I’ve noticed both very liberal and very conservative people will both be anti-development, but their rationales will change. The conservative will raise objections around things like “neighborhood character” and “small businesses”, while liberals will raise objections around “the environment” or “displacing disadvantaged communities”. Either way, the resultant viewpoint is the same: everything is perfect the way it is right now and nothing should ever change.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  In support of your point, Margaret Atwood (the author of The Handmaid's Tale) is famously NIMBY [0]. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/3707723/margaret-atwood-condo-controversy-in-toronto/ https://globalnews.ca/news/3707723/margaret-atwood-condo-con...
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    On the other hand the article calls "8-storey 16-unit building" a "modest condo development". I'm not NIMBY, and I would be opposed to that.
    - ponker 6y ago
      Well then you are NIMBY, just for some things and not others, like every other person.
    - CalRobert 6y ago
      OK, where should those people live instead?
      - michaelt 6y ago
        When you're a NIMBY, depending on your political persuasion they might say: * I don't care, just not here * One of the housing developments in other towns, which I don't oppose * Working from home is the future, why do people need to move here anyway? * Further out, served by improved public transport infrastructure. * Homelessness is really more of a mental health services problem. So the real solution here is healthcare reform. * The problem is billion-dollar corporations all centralising in one place for no good reason. We should spread the jobs out. * Who says the population has to grow at all? Capitalism is the problem, the endless growth it demands isn't possible. * The solution is a bay-area-wide master plan to deliver an integrated response, addressing our current and future needs for jobs, homes, schools, equality, desegregation, mass transit, homeless and mental health services, and a response to the climate crisis. Needless to say, these are well beyond the power of someone building a few condos. But the NIMBY's alternative is only to assuage their conscience, so realism isn't important.
desert_boi 6y ago
Portland, OR is famous for hating both sprawl and density. NIMBYism is something all Americans can get behind.

I thought the bay area is very liberal? Japan which is a very conservative country, both in absolute terms and as a general philosophy, has very lax zoning rules and many trains running literally thorough people back yards. So I wouldn't say it is related.

Lammy 6y ago
The Bay Area is many things to many different types of people. Unfortunately it is also very segregated: http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?bayarea http://www.radicalcartography.net/index.html?bayarea
fountainofage 6y ago
From what I've experienced, the majority of the Bay Area is very liberal up until the point it actually costs them something - then it quickly becomes a conservative paradise. People will shout and scream and boycott to make sure you can use whatever bathroom you choose. Or make sure that everyone respects your choice of pronouns. But ask those same people to build more housing and provide ample public transit? Ask those same people to close all private schools and force people to use public school lottery systems that mingle rich, middle-class, and poor? Absolutely never. They isolate into their communities and tell the folks trying to get in that their town is now full.

FreakyT 6y ago

You’re definitely correct that NIMBYism is a form of conservatism (in the classic sense of the word), but what I find really interesting is how effectively NIMBYism crosses party lines. I’ve noticed both very liberal and very conservative people will both be anti-development, but their rationales will change. The conservative will raise objections around things like “neighborhood character” and “small businesses”, while liberals will raise objections around “the environment” or “displacing disadvantaged communities”. Either way, the resultant viewpoint is the same: everything is perfect the way it is right now and nothing should ever change.

smnrchrds 6y ago
In support of your point, Margaret Atwood (the author of The Handmaid's Tale) is famously NIMBY [0]. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/3707723/margaret-atwood-condo-controversy-in-toronto/ https://globalnews.ca/news/3707723/margaret-atwood-condo-con...
- dmitriid 6y ago
  On the other hand the article calls "8-storey 16-unit building" a "modest condo development". I'm not NIMBY, and I would be opposed to that.
  - ponker 6y ago
    Well then you are NIMBY, just for some things and not others, like every other person.
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    OK, where should those people live instead?
    - michaelt 6y ago
      When you're a NIMBY, depending on your political persuasion they might say: * I don't care, just not here * One of the housing developments in other towns, which I don't oppose * Working from home is the future, why do people need to move here anyway? * Further out, served by improved public transport infrastructure. * Homelessness is really more of a mental health services problem. So the real solution here is healthcare reform. * The problem is billion-dollar corporations all centralising in one place for no good reason. We should spread the jobs out. * Who says the population has to grow at all? Capitalism is the problem, the endless growth it demands isn't possible. * The solution is a bay-area-wide master plan to deliver an integrated response, addressing our current and future needs for jobs, homes, schools, equality, desegregation, mass transit, homeless and mental health services, and a response to the climate crisis. Needless to say, these are well beyond the power of someone building a few condos. But the NIMBY's alternative is only to assuage their conscience, so realism isn't important.

desert_boi 6y ago

Portland, OR is famous for hating both sprawl and density. NIMBYism is something all Americans can get behind.