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I’d like to see Antifa added to this growing list as well. The article states this group has “ties to dangerous real-world activities”. Does anyone know of an

I’d like to see Antifa added to this growing list as well. The article states this group has “ties to dangerous real-world activities”. Does anyone know of any? Or is this just conjecture? The article’s statement was fairly vague.

exogeny 6y ago
Can you describe to me what you think Antifa is?
- revnode 6y ago
  A group of communists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
  - Talanes 6y ago
    I think all time travelers should be welcomed on Twitter with welcome arms, be they from 1933 or 2933.
    - totetsu 6y ago
      I say, could someone explain this preponderance of sharp signs?
  - manux 6y ago
    First of all, from this link: > was a militant anti-fascist organisation, emphasis mine. People who self-identify as anti-fascist nowadays have little to do with communism. Why not link this page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism Second of all, is "communist" a slur on HN? Is that supposed to sound scary or something?
    - revnode 6y ago
      > Second of all, is "communist" a slur on HN? Is that supposed to sound scary or something? No, it's supposed to sound accurate. > People who self-identify as anti-fascist nowadays have little to do with communism. From your own link: "This article has multiple issues." Mine doesn't and accurately describes the group's origins.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      It’s a slur, a belief that these people are extreme card-carrying Marxists educated at Karl Marx University and completely conversant with Das Kapital in the original german. But I’ve never met someone complaining about them who could name one of them. It’s like some Boys of Brazil meets George Soros thing with them.
- codeddesign 6y ago
  From Oxford Dictionary: “a political protest movement comprising autonomous groups affiliated by their militant opposition to fascism and other forms of extreme right-wing ideology.” A far left wing group that utilizes militant and terrorist techniques as forms of protest (as stated above)
  - codeddesign 6y ago
    HAHAHA...some how I was down voted for pasting google’s search result. Way too funny..
  - msbarnett 6y ago
    So when you say “I’d like to see Antifa added to this growing list as well” are you suggesting that you would like to see Twitter ban anyone opposed to fascism and other forms of extreme right-wing ideology?
    - codeddesign 6y ago
      Honestly, I don’t think twitter should ban anyone. As long as it’s legal, keep it up. Otherwise you essentially have censorship through corporate monopolies. However, if you are going to have terms then stick to them. To answer you question, yes. Those a part of Antifa, and those promoting Antifa. (decision based upon their statement in the article and them stating what is a “ban-able” offense). Hope that answered your question! :)
      - msbarnett 6y ago
        I suppose it did, although “only pro-fascist and extreme right-wing views should be allowed” was a bit more mask-off than I expected to see on HN. Hell of a site you’re running here, dang.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      It's actions that matter. Both extremes behave the same, regardless of what they call themselves or claim to do.
- manigandham 6y ago
  A loose organization with regional groups, ranging from random protesters by proximity to political activists to violent criminals and terrorists, with various claims from generally left/socialist ideologies to outright radical extremism.
  - dwd 6y ago
    I would say "completely disorganised" rather than "loose organisation" and I can't see that changing. The left is a vast collection of competing factional ideas that in many cases the only common purpose is a demand for change. Environmentalists can't agree with each other, let alone animal welfare activists who can't agree with native/traditional rights; and theres a range of single issue movements that end up diluting support for bigger picture issues simply by association. I'm not saying that they are wrong or their demands invalid but it draws attention away from the messages everyone could get behind if there was better focus. It happened with the "Occupy Wall Street" and "BLM" will likely go the same way if it doesn't simply stick to one core message.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      I'm on the left, and can concur. Many of us were pissed about Bernie losing, and thinking yeah now's the time for the Green party to win... Then there's like at least 3 groups trying to start 3 new political parties, those of us pushing for the greens, more pushing for one of the socialist parties, and some even pushing for the libertarian party (I'm a leftist/socialist libertarian, but the libertarian party is NOTHING like a left/libertarian), and some voting for Trump out of spite, or insanity, and the rest probably cow-towing to vote for Biden. Just ideas alone it's pretty disjointed. No organization. I mean the right/tea party at least was pretty coherent and had a pretty good structure to accomplish their goals. Leftists though have their own purity tests, and their own minds made up and can be rather stubborn about how to accomplish goals, what those goals should be, etc... I think we all have ADHD or something. However, there's no 'terrorism' on the left, or very rare. antifa is not a terrorist org. Show me the deaths, the bombs, etc. I can show you plenty of those on the right though, an antifa terrorist is probably some kid egging or graffit-ing a building. That's about as serious as they get, because most on the left are also pacifists.
joshuamorton 6y ago
Do you mean that you want antifa-related accounts to be banned? Or do you mean that discussion of conspiracy theories about antifa should be banned?
aaomidi 6y ago
Yeah let's start by banning the US military accounts, the og antifa
djur 6y ago
QAnon has been associated with at least one murder, several kidnappings, and a number of terroristic threats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2020/01/08/mother-teamed-up-with-qanon-followers-kidnap-her-son-protective-custody-police-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2020/01/08/mother-t... No "antifa" movement has been associated with the same degree of violence and coordinated harassment. There are not tens of thousands of "antifa" members sharing lists of public figures they believe have been or should be executed and fabricating evidence against those figures.
dwd 6y ago
You could start with the guy who charged into the pizza shop back when this all began. Fortunately he didn't kill anyone but he's now in jail after sincerely believed children were being abused and that it was being covered up. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-man-with-assault-rifle-dc-comet-pizza-victim-of-fake-sex-trafficking-story/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-man-with-assault-rifle-d...
- Hitton 6y ago
  So you are claiming that QAnon, "a thing" that started in October 2017 is somehow responsible for attack in 2016? Could you explain your reasoning? I don't think you believe in some time travel conspiracy, that would be more of QAnon thing.
  - dwd 6y ago
    I would think it fairly disingenuous to claim QAnon as a distinct thing with no history or causality and that it appeared fully formed and unchanging. It should have by rights have disappeared into obscurity after the imminent mass arrests of HRC and other prominent Dems didn't occur; much like the lone gunman inadvertently showed Pizzagate as a hoax. Rather it has morphed into a moment of sorts that channels people frustrations with anything and everything, with a weird idolisation of Trump the celebrity and now encompasses any alt/far-right fringe idea that is big on conspiracy but generally lacking in theory.
    - Hitton 6y ago
      What I think is disingenuous is to want anything to exist in absolute isolation. Sure, Pizzagate and QAnon probably draws from same demographic, but blaming something that that hadn't existed yet and saying that it "should have by rights have disappeared into obscurity after the imminent mass arrests of HRC and other prominent Dems didn't occur" is total bulls*it.
Kednicma 6y ago
As an antifascist, I'd like to list some things [0] which I haven't done and which I do not imagine are parts of healthy antifascism, but which I can understand that Twitter might ban folks for encouraging or doing: * Doxxing * Brandishing weapons in a family restaurant [1] * Targeting journalists for violence * Targeting public figures who have been accused of crimes for violence [2] * Targeting politicians for violence * Bombing churches (and yes, Satanic temples are just as bad to bomb as Christian churches) * Invading foreign soil Could you help flesh out the equivalence here? It seems like quite the false equivalence to me. Antifascist violence is a last resort, not a central desire of the ideology; we've seen police, military police, and now secret police in a continuing escalation of violence by the state; meanwhile, Q's followers seem quite happy to endorse violence as the primary means by which political and social change are achieved, by which detective work is done and facts are learned, and by which discussions are had and consensus is reached. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Cali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Cali
- jhardy54 6y ago
  Seeing how deeply you've been downvoted makes me so embarrassed to be on this hell website. Too bad you can't delete your account. EDIT: Your downvotes prove my point.
- auganov 6y ago
  Willem Van Spronsen who firebombed an ICE facility was a self described antifa [0] Connor Betts who shot 9 people dead was an antifa sympathizer [1] James T. Hodgkinson who hurt two officers and wounded Republican Rep. Scalise in a shootout was found to have posted a lot of content comparing President Trump and the Republican party to Nazis [2]. An idea that has been popularized by antifa elements. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/ice-detention-attack-killed-washington-antifa-manifesto https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/ice-detent... [1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/08/07/dayton-shooting-what-do-we-know-connor-betts-politics/1943289001/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/08/07/dayton-shootin... [2] http://jewishbreakingnews.com/2017/06/14/breaking-shooter-identified-james-t-hodgkinson-66-hillary-bernie-supporter/ http://jewishbreakingnews.com/2017/06/14/breaking-shooter-id...
jhardy54 6y ago
If you're optimizing for "ties to dangerous real-world activities" it's weird that you'd pick anti-fascist protestors before considering cops and soldiers. Cool ideology you have there.
- codeddesign 6y ago
  I’m not for war, but to ban all soldiers and cops is ridiculous - so is saying that all cops and all soldiers are bad.
  - jhardy54 6y ago
    > all cops and all soldiers are bad Finally something we can agree on.

exogeny 6y ago

Can you describe to me what you think Antifa is?

revnode 6y ago
A group of communists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
- Talanes 6y ago
  I think all time travelers should be welcomed on Twitter with welcome arms, be they from 1933 or 2933.
  - totetsu 6y ago
    I say, could someone explain this preponderance of sharp signs?
- manux 6y ago
  First of all, from this link: > was a militant anti-fascist organisation, emphasis mine. People who self-identify as anti-fascist nowadays have little to do with communism. Why not link this page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism Second of all, is "communist" a slur on HN? Is that supposed to sound scary or something?
  - revnode 6y ago
    > Second of all, is "communist" a slur on HN? Is that supposed to sound scary or something? No, it's supposed to sound accurate. > People who self-identify as anti-fascist nowadays have little to do with communism. From your own link: "This article has multiple issues." Mine doesn't and accurately describes the group's origins.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    It’s a slur, a belief that these people are extreme card-carrying Marxists educated at Karl Marx University and completely conversant with Das Kapital in the original german. But I’ve never met someone complaining about them who could name one of them. It’s like some Boys of Brazil meets George Soros thing with them.
codeddesign 6y ago
From Oxford Dictionary: “a political protest movement comprising autonomous groups affiliated by their militant opposition to fascism and other forms of extreme right-wing ideology.” A far left wing group that utilizes militant and terrorist techniques as forms of protest (as stated above)
- codeddesign 6y ago
  HAHAHA...some how I was down voted for pasting google’s search result. Way too funny..
- msbarnett 6y ago
  So when you say “I’d like to see Antifa added to this growing list as well” are you suggesting that you would like to see Twitter ban anyone opposed to fascism and other forms of extreme right-wing ideology?
  - codeddesign 6y ago
    Honestly, I don’t think twitter should ban anyone. As long as it’s legal, keep it up. Otherwise you essentially have censorship through corporate monopolies. However, if you are going to have terms then stick to them. To answer you question, yes. Those a part of Antifa, and those promoting Antifa. (decision based upon their statement in the article and them stating what is a “ban-able” offense). Hope that answered your question! :)
    - msbarnett 6y ago
      I suppose it did, although “only pro-fascist and extreme right-wing views should be allowed” was a bit more mask-off than I expected to see on HN. Hell of a site you’re running here, dang.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    It's actions that matter. Both extremes behave the same, regardless of what they call themselves or claim to do.
manigandham 6y ago
A loose organization with regional groups, ranging from random protesters by proximity to political activists to violent criminals and terrorists, with various claims from generally left/socialist ideologies to outright radical extremism.
- dwd 6y ago
  I would say "completely disorganised" rather than "loose organisation" and I can't see that changing. The left is a vast collection of competing factional ideas that in many cases the only common purpose is a demand for change. Environmentalists can't agree with each other, let alone animal welfare activists who can't agree with native/traditional rights; and theres a range of single issue movements that end up diluting support for bigger picture issues simply by association. I'm not saying that they are wrong or their demands invalid but it draws attention away from the messages everyone could get behind if there was better focus. It happened with the "Occupy Wall Street" and "BLM" will likely go the same way if it doesn't simply stick to one core message.
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    I'm on the left, and can concur. Many of us were pissed about Bernie losing, and thinking yeah now's the time for the Green party to win... Then there's like at least 3 groups trying to start 3 new political parties, those of us pushing for the greens, more pushing for one of the socialist parties, and some even pushing for the libertarian party (I'm a leftist/socialist libertarian, but the libertarian party is NOTHING like a left/libertarian), and some voting for Trump out of spite, or insanity, and the rest probably cow-towing to vote for Biden. Just ideas alone it's pretty disjointed. No organization. I mean the right/tea party at least was pretty coherent and had a pretty good structure to accomplish their goals. Leftists though have their own purity tests, and their own minds made up and can be rather stubborn about how to accomplish goals, what those goals should be, etc... I think we all have ADHD or something. However, there's no 'terrorism' on the left, or very rare. antifa is not a terrorist org. Show me the deaths, the bombs, etc. I can show you plenty of those on the right though, an antifa terrorist is probably some kid egging or graffit-ing a building. That's about as serious as they get, because most on the left are also pacifists.

joshuamorton 6y ago

Do you mean that you want antifa-related accounts to be banned? Or do you mean that discussion of conspiracy theories about antifa should be banned?

aaomidi 6y ago

Yeah let's start by banning the US military accounts, the og antifa

djur 6y ago

QAnon has been associated with at least one murder, several kidnappings, and a number of terroristic threats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2020/01/08/mother-teamed-up-with-qanon-followers-kidnap-her-son-protective-custody-police-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2020/01/08/mother-t... No "antifa" movement has been associated with the same degree of violence and coordinated harassment. There are not tens of thousands of "antifa" members sharing lists of public figures they believe have been or should be executed and fabricating evidence against those figures.

dwd 6y ago

You could start with the guy who charged into the pizza shop back when this all began. Fortunately he didn't kill anyone but he's now in jail after sincerely believed children were being abused and that it was being covered up. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-man-with-assault-rifle-dc-comet-pizza-victim-of-fake-sex-trafficking-story/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-man-with-assault-rifle-d...

Hitton 6y ago
So you are claiming that QAnon, "a thing" that started in October 2017 is somehow responsible for attack in 2016? Could you explain your reasoning? I don't think you believe in some time travel conspiracy, that would be more of QAnon thing.
- dwd 6y ago
  I would think it fairly disingenuous to claim QAnon as a distinct thing with no history or causality and that it appeared fully formed and unchanging. It should have by rights have disappeared into obscurity after the imminent mass arrests of HRC and other prominent Dems didn't occur; much like the lone gunman inadvertently showed Pizzagate as a hoax. Rather it has morphed into a moment of sorts that channels people frustrations with anything and everything, with a weird idolisation of Trump the celebrity and now encompasses any alt/far-right fringe idea that is big on conspiracy but generally lacking in theory.
  - Hitton 6y ago
    What I think is disingenuous is to want anything to exist in absolute isolation. Sure, Pizzagate and QAnon probably draws from same demographic, but blaming something that that hadn't existed yet and saying that it "should have by rights have disappeared into obscurity after the imminent mass arrests of HRC and other prominent Dems didn't occur" is total bulls*it.

Kednicma 6y ago

As an antifascist, I'd like to list some things [0] which I haven't done and which I do not imagine are parts of healthy antifascism, but which I can understand that Twitter might ban folks for encouraging or doing: * Doxxing * Brandishing weapons in a family restaurant [1] * Targeting journalists for violence * Targeting public figures who have been accused of crimes for violence [2] * Targeting politicians for violence * Bombing churches (and yes, Satanic temples are just as bad to bomb as Christian churches) * Invading foreign soil Could you help flesh out the equivalence here? It seems like quite the false equivalence to me. Antifascist violence is a last resort, not a central desire of the ideology; we've seen police, military police, and now secret police in a continuing escalation of violence by the state; meanwhile, Q's followers seem quite happy to endorse violence as the primary means by which political and social change are achieved, by which detective work is done and facts are learned, and by which discussions are had and consensus is reached. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Cali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Cali

jhardy54 6y ago
Seeing how deeply you've been downvoted makes me so embarrassed to be on this hell website. Too bad you can't delete your account. EDIT: Your downvotes prove my point.
auganov 6y ago
Willem Van Spronsen who firebombed an ICE facility was a self described antifa [0] Connor Betts who shot 9 people dead was an antifa sympathizer [1] James T. Hodgkinson who hurt two officers and wounded Republican Rep. Scalise in a shootout was found to have posted a lot of content comparing President Trump and the Republican party to Nazis [2]. An idea that has been popularized by antifa elements. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/ice-detention-attack-killed-washington-antifa-manifesto https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/ice-detent... [1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/08/07/dayton-shooting-what-do-we-know-connor-betts-politics/1943289001/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/08/07/dayton-shootin... [2] http://jewishbreakingnews.com/2017/06/14/breaking-shooter-identified-james-t-hodgkinson-66-hillary-bernie-supporter/ http://jewishbreakingnews.com/2017/06/14/breaking-shooter-id...

jhardy54 6y ago

If you're optimizing for "ties to dangerous real-world activities" it's weird that you'd pick anti-fascist protestors before considering cops and soldiers. Cool ideology you have there.

codeddesign 6y ago
I’m not for war, but to ban all soldiers and cops is ridiculous - so is saying that all cops and all soldiers are bad.
- jhardy54 6y ago
  > all cops and all soldiers are bad Finally something we can agree on.