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You are confused. If you try spending bitcoin cash on bitcoin network you will fail, because bitcoin cash utxos are not bitcoin utxos and bitcoin cash is not bi

You are confused. If you try spending bitcoin cash on bitcoin network you will fail, because bitcoin cash utxos are not bitcoin utxos and bitcoin cash is not bitcoin. There are no additional 42 mil bitcoin, there are additional 42 mil of some other tokens spendable on some other networks.

WorldMaker 6y ago
I don't think I am confused. I told you I have a different viewpoint on this. You are claiming different branches of the same tree are magically distinct from each other because they have different names and magic runes sketched into them with a pencil, and all I see is a single tree in a huge forest full of trees. I don't think I'm going to convince you of my viewpoint, but my viewpoint is not confused. You aren't likely to convince me that one branch is more scarce than the others because I can see how big the whole tree is, and especially because I can see how many other trees are in the forest already. (ETA: To make it clearer, you especially aren't going to convince me because I think Proof of Work is a waste of processing power. The real scarcity is processing power, and again, that's a political/economic game, that only props up artificial scarcity so far. Certainly not far enough that I trust the bitcoin tree to remain scarce in the long run. Not a question of if, but a question of when.)
- monokh 6y ago
  Your viewpoint on forks doesn't really check out. It's based on a misunderstanding of how related these forks are to Bitcoin. Anything that forks off of bitcoin is an entirely separate network, asset and market. You can in fact fork Bitcoin today and attempt to create a market, will your new coin be valued as a Bitcoin and derive its current ~9000 USD price? So the value of a fork coin is not in its approximation to Bitcoin. It's merely tied to how much fire power you have to convince others to buy it. Regardless of how you personally view the best use of cpu cycles, the market overwhelmingly disagrees. The network total hashrate has done nothing but go up and to the right since inception. Which is to say, that the market also disagrees with your theory that Bitcoin will lose scarcity (therefore value) over time. Based on which signs or hypothetical scenario are you imagining that this whole systems turns back on itself and breaks?
  - bb88 6y ago
    In history, large numbers of people have committed grievous mistakes under the notion of "It's popular so it must be the right thing." Axis powers during WWII, e.g. "You can in fact fork Bitcoin today and attempt to create a market, will your new coin be valued as a Bitcoin and derive its current ~9000 USD price?" Yes. They're called shit coins. I'll make 21,000,000 shit coins in my currency and sell you one for $9,000. You can, make your own shit coins and just sell one of your shit coins back to me for $9,000. Money need not exchange hands. How about this? I will sell you an arbitrary magic number for $9000. It's value is only good inside those that trade these magic numbers. The only difference between my offer and bitcoin is that many people are trading these magic numbers.
    - keymone 6y ago
      > I'll make 21,000,000 shit coins in my currency and sell you one for $9,000 What makes you think I will buy your shitcoin for $9000?
      - bb88 6y ago
        I just need one person to. And again, money need not exchange hands.
    - monokh 6y ago
      > The only difference between my offer and bitcoin is that many people are trading these magic numbers. And that is a world of difference. If I sold a Bitcoin for half the market price, anyone rational would take that offer without thinking. Your shitcoin on the other hand has no persistent or reliable market value and you would not be able to find a buyer.
      - bb88 6y ago
        Again, your argument is that it's popular, so it must be good. Illicit drugs are also popular -- but how many people have died from overdose?
  - 6y ago
- keymone 6y ago
  Yes, forks are magically distinct by the fact that YOU CANT SPEND FORKED COINS ON ORIGINAL NETWORK. How much more distinction do you need? And no, PoW is not wasteful. It’s in fact the most efficient system for pricing money security.
  - notahacker 6y ago
    > It’s in fact the most efficient system for pricing money security. Other currencies achieve security through means which don't involve the power generation resources of a small country.
    - keymone 6y ago
      And they don’t have the same security properties as bitcoin does.

WorldMaker 6y ago

I don't think I am confused. I told you I have a different viewpoint on this. You are claiming different branches of the same tree are magically distinct from each other because they have different names and magic runes sketched into them with a pencil, and all I see is a single tree in a huge forest full of trees. I don't think I'm going to convince you of my viewpoint, but my viewpoint is not confused. You aren't likely to convince me that one branch is more scarce than the others because I can see how big the whole tree is, and especially because I can see how many other trees are in the forest already. (ETA: To make it clearer, you especially aren't going to convince me because I think Proof of Work is a waste of processing power. The real scarcity is processing power, and again, that's a political/economic game, that only props up artificial scarcity so far. Certainly not far enough that I trust the bitcoin tree to remain scarce in the long run. Not a question of if, but a question of when.)

monokh 6y ago
Your viewpoint on forks doesn't really check out. It's based on a misunderstanding of how related these forks are to Bitcoin. Anything that forks off of bitcoin is an entirely separate network, asset and market. You can in fact fork Bitcoin today and attempt to create a market, will your new coin be valued as a Bitcoin and derive its current ~9000 USD price? So the value of a fork coin is not in its approximation to Bitcoin. It's merely tied to how much fire power you have to convince others to buy it. Regardless of how you personally view the best use of cpu cycles, the market overwhelmingly disagrees. The network total hashrate has done nothing but go up and to the right since inception. Which is to say, that the market also disagrees with your theory that Bitcoin will lose scarcity (therefore value) over time. Based on which signs or hypothetical scenario are you imagining that this whole systems turns back on itself and breaks?
- bb88 6y ago
  In history, large numbers of people have committed grievous mistakes under the notion of "It's popular so it must be the right thing." Axis powers during WWII, e.g. "You can in fact fork Bitcoin today and attempt to create a market, will your new coin be valued as a Bitcoin and derive its current ~9000 USD price?" Yes. They're called shit coins. I'll make 21,000,000 shit coins in my currency and sell you one for $9,000. You can, make your own shit coins and just sell one of your shit coins back to me for $9,000. Money need not exchange hands. How about this? I will sell you an arbitrary magic number for $9000. It's value is only good inside those that trade these magic numbers. The only difference between my offer and bitcoin is that many people are trading these magic numbers.
  - keymone 6y ago
    > I'll make 21,000,000 shit coins in my currency and sell you one for $9,000 What makes you think I will buy your shitcoin for $9000?
    - bb88 6y ago
      I just need one person to. And again, money need not exchange hands.
  - monokh 6y ago
    > The only difference between my offer and bitcoin is that many people are trading these magic numbers. And that is a world of difference. If I sold a Bitcoin for half the market price, anyone rational would take that offer without thinking. Your shitcoin on the other hand has no persistent or reliable market value and you would not be able to find a buyer.
    - bb88 6y ago
      Again, your argument is that it's popular, so it must be good. Illicit drugs are also popular -- but how many people have died from overdose?
- 6y ago
keymone 6y ago
Yes, forks are magically distinct by the fact that YOU CANT SPEND FORKED COINS ON ORIGINAL NETWORK. How much more distinction do you need? And no, PoW is not wasteful. It’s in fact the most efficient system for pricing money security.
- notahacker 6y ago
  > It’s in fact the most efficient system for pricing money security. Other currencies achieve security through means which don't involve the power generation resources of a small country.
  - keymone 6y ago
    And they don’t have the same security properties as bitcoin does.