5 ms·

Who in Silicon Valley thinks that? I've never heard anyone say it in my 30+ years here (until now).

pb7 6y ago
Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.
- tdfx 6y ago
  > most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does I don't even think it's ideological. The reason the defense industry lacks top tier talent is because it's quite literally the most stifling and frustrating place to work possible. You're mired in endless bureaucracy, incompetent management, arcane rules and regulations surrounding secrecy, and some of the world's least flexible working arrangements. It ends up being a great place for people who want to punch a clock and get a reliable paycheck, but a deadend for anyone trying to make their mark.
  - i_am_proteus 6y ago
    Government service also pays substantially less than SV.
- p1esk 6y ago
  I thought the dominant public opinion is government agencies are staffed with mediocre engineers. Not even because of any moral concerns, just because of bureaucracy and low pay.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    I learned from Snowden's book that the real way to make money working for the government is to quit and become a contractor.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - pb7 6y ago
    Agreed, but we still think of the CIA and NSA on a technical level as being capable of unparalleled surveillance, crypto cracking, and other general hackery and engineering to maintain its power. Perhaps that's part of the propaganda. With that said, I imagine much of that is possible with backdoors to mass consumer data like Facebook which is actually collected via ingenious (but unethical) talent in Silicon Valley.
- mturmon 6y ago
  I hear you, and appreciate your caveat ("highly anecdotally"). But consider a couple of data points: -- KH-11 satellite, and presumed successors -- Stuxnet -- Utah data center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center) -- The rather enormous intelligence budget that allows all kinds of creativity The above indicates that there must be some corners of these agencies that are extremely technically skilled, and able to do real stuff with breathtaking ambition. Given the budget, these "corners" might be pretty big, and attract some excellent talent. Those that know, aren't talking, and those talking (ahem!), don't know.
  - pb7 6y ago
    Can't do anything but agree. The intelligence budget, as you said, is enormous so there will certainly be things that come out of it that would be shaky business decisions to even attempt in the private sector. For one, GPS was created by the DoD and I am still blown away that it is so good, accessible, and free for consumer use.
  - MR4D 6y ago
    You should have ended your post with "<mike drop>". Pretty hard to argue with that list. A friend of mine (who went to NMSU) worked for NASA. He wrote the code that determined what angle the solar panels need to be at to get the right amount of sun to power the ISS. Crazy number of edge cases, and people die if you have a bug. Was pretty impressive to hear the things he had to do and the processes they had for minimizing the risk of someone dying. I'd put that on par with many things, too (although Stuxnet has its own place for genuflection).
  - monocasa 6y ago
    KH-11 is Lockheed. Stuxnet was probably mainly Mossad. The Utah data center was a pretty run of the mill data center, but apparently plagued by technical issues. And yeah, they have a huge budget which allows them to buy a lot of toys for a bit above normal price. Their mathematicians are top notch though from what I've heard.
    - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
vmception 6y ago
Allow me to rephrase, people believe the NSA has superior technology with mystical capabilities. Who do you think that develops that stuff, where do those people come from?
- djKianoosh 6y ago
  contractors
  - vmception 6y ago
    who are also heavily consolidated in certain markets, who also recruit from the same state schools that Big Tech can't figure out even exist
- bumby 6y ago
  To be fair, I think the general opinion is they are created by private contractors with government oversight
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
microcolonel 6y ago
Silicon Valley really loves some formal education it seems. Both of my Si Valley interviews, where they were willing to fly me out and accommodate me, involved an older gentleman having a sit-down with me about university, and how I should have gone.

pb7 6y ago

Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.

tdfx 6y ago
> most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does I don't even think it's ideological. The reason the defense industry lacks top tier talent is because it's quite literally the most stifling and frustrating place to work possible. You're mired in endless bureaucracy, incompetent management, arcane rules and regulations surrounding secrecy, and some of the world's least flexible working arrangements. It ends up being a great place for people who want to punch a clock and get a reliable paycheck, but a deadend for anyone trying to make their mark.
- i_am_proteus 6y ago
  Government service also pays substantially less than SV.
p1esk 6y ago
I thought the dominant public opinion is government agencies are staffed with mediocre engineers. Not even because of any moral concerns, just because of bureaucracy and low pay.
- chillacy 6y ago
  I learned from Snowden's book that the real way to make money working for the government is to quit and become a contractor.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- pb7 6y ago
  Agreed, but we still think of the CIA and NSA on a technical level as being capable of unparalleled surveillance, crypto cracking, and other general hackery and engineering to maintain its power. Perhaps that's part of the propaganda. With that said, I imagine much of that is possible with backdoors to mass consumer data like Facebook which is actually collected via ingenious (but unethical) talent in Silicon Valley.
mturmon 6y ago
I hear you, and appreciate your caveat ("highly anecdotally"). But consider a couple of data points: -- KH-11 satellite, and presumed successors -- Stuxnet -- Utah data center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center) -- The rather enormous intelligence budget that allows all kinds of creativity The above indicates that there must be some corners of these agencies that are extremely technically skilled, and able to do real stuff with breathtaking ambition. Given the budget, these "corners" might be pretty big, and attract some excellent talent. Those that know, aren't talking, and those talking (ahem!), don't know.
- pb7 6y ago
  Can't do anything but agree. The intelligence budget, as you said, is enormous so there will certainly be things that come out of it that would be shaky business decisions to even attempt in the private sector. For one, GPS was created by the DoD and I am still blown away that it is so good, accessible, and free for consumer use.
- MR4D 6y ago
  You should have ended your post with "<mike drop>". Pretty hard to argue with that list. A friend of mine (who went to NMSU) worked for NASA. He wrote the code that determined what angle the solar panels need to be at to get the right amount of sun to power the ISS. Crazy number of edge cases, and people die if you have a bug. Was pretty impressive to hear the things he had to do and the processes they had for minimizing the risk of someone dying. I'd put that on par with many things, too (although Stuxnet has its own place for genuflection).
- monocasa 6y ago
  KH-11 is Lockheed. Stuxnet was probably mainly Mossad. The Utah data center was a pretty run of the mill data center, but apparently plagued by technical issues. And yeah, they have a huge budget which allows them to buy a lot of toys for a bit above normal price. Their mathematicians are top notch though from what I've heard.
  - ganoushoreilly 6y ago

vmception 6y ago

Allow me to rephrase, people believe the NSA has superior technology with mystical capabilities. Who do you think that develops that stuff, where do those people come from?

djKianoosh 6y ago
contractors
- vmception 6y ago
  who are also heavily consolidated in certain markets, who also recruit from the same state schools that Big Tech can't figure out even exist
bumby 6y ago
To be fair, I think the general opinion is they are created by private contractors with government oversight
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

microcolonel 6y ago

Silicon Valley really loves some formal education it seems. Both of my Si Valley interviews, where they were willing to fly me out and accommodate me, involved an older gentleman having a sit-down with me about university, and how I should have gone.