3 ms·

Is there context for this? Are apps breaking when the major version of the OS changes?

0x0 6y ago
Lazy developers assuming majorVersion is always 10, so they do an "if minorVersion < 14 then error 'requires at least macOS 10.14'"
twoodfin 6y ago
I suspect the larger problem is code that checks the minor version is > n and either refuses to run or disables capabilities that weren't available in the OS before 10.n.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
fredoralive 6y ago
Windows 95 (4.0) tells 16 bit apps that it is “3.95” because enough old apps had problems because of broken version checks. So it’s not without precedent for an OS to lie to old apps about version numbers, and in this case the version has been 10 for 20 years, so there are probably a fair few that assume the major part must be 10.
- my123 6y ago
  Windows 8.1 onwards also do in Windows land, with it returning the Windows 8.0 version number (NT 6.2, build 9200) for apps that aren't enlightened for newer versions.
wk_end 6y ago
Legend has it this is why Windows skipped version 9 - too many apps broke when they checked the version string just for “Windows 9” to capture both “95” and “98”.
- Lammy 6y ago
  I wonder if wanting to one-up Microsoft also came up somewhere once they both had an OS major version 10 :)
- stordoff 6y ago
  Opera 10 faced the same issue: > The user agent for Opera 10 (eg Mac platform, English locale) will be as follows: Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 > When we released the Opera 10 alpha in December last year, we gave it a Opera/10.00 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.0 user agent string. [...] It appears that a considerable amount of browser sniffing scripts are not quite ready for this change to double digits, as they detect only the first digit of the user agent string: in such a scenario, Opera 10 is interpreted as Opera 1. https://maqentaer.com/devopera-static-backup/http/dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-ua-string-changes/index.html https://maqentaer.com/devopera-static-backup/http/dev.opera....
xucheng 6y ago
I remember some softwares were broken when macOS 10.10 came out. Because they all assumed that the minor version is a single digit. Since TLS 1.3, the version number in Client Hello package has been permanently frozen as TLS 1.0 to prevent breakage. There is also a story that the copyright string in some old software by microsoft is permanently frozen for the same purpose.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  > Client Hello package has been permanently frozen as TLS 1.0 to prevent breakage. Which is actually reported as SSL 3.1 "to prevent breakage".
thought_alarm 6y ago
It's the first time in the 20 year history of Mac OS X that the major version number has changed. They're simply protecting against the likely possibility that some apps don't bother to check the major version. Going forward, expect the major version number to change each year, like iOS. But for apps built against older versions of the SDK, the major version will always be 10.
- jon-wood 6y ago
  How is Mac OS X two decades old? It feels like just yesterday I started my first real job, developing websites on a computer running Mac OS 10.1.
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    It’s because the fundamentals of the macOS user-experience haven’t changed much since OS X’s introduction of the dock and their fancy GUI effects: the “genie” window minimise is still there! And generally speaking, macOS’s aesthetics have been consistent too - we only saw Dark Mode added very recently, for example. Apple has also been very conservative about adding major user-visible features to macOS lately - but that’s more attributable to them devoting their resources to iOS instead of macOS. Windows, on the other hand, updates its appearance (and adds (or removes) gimmicks) with each major release - even completely upending the UX fundamentals in Windows 8. Also consider that we used to have to reformat/reinstall computer OSs more regularly in the past - and having to do reinstalls makes you think about your computer UX as you spend time changing the settings from the defaults to your custom preferences. I remember having to reinstall Windows 95-98 every 6-9 months, and Windows XP once every year or so. Since Windows 7 things have been a lot more stable - my current Windows 10 install would have been ~4 years old now if it weren’t for me losing all my documents in the October 2018 update... (all I got was $400 from MS, ugh)
- fpgaminer 6y ago
  That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.
Klonoar 6y ago
It's kind of a pain in the ass with regards to homebrew at the moment, yeah.

0x0 6y ago

Lazy developers assuming majorVersion is always 10, so they do an "if minorVersion < 14 then error 'requires at least macOS 10.14'"

twoodfin 6y ago

I suspect the larger problem is code that checks the minor version is > n and either refuses to run or disables capabilities that weren't available in the OS before 10.n.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

fredoralive 6y ago

Windows 95 (4.0) tells 16 bit apps that it is “3.95” because enough old apps had problems because of broken version checks. So it’s not without precedent for an OS to lie to old apps about version numbers, and in this case the version has been 10 for 20 years, so there are probably a fair few that assume the major part must be 10.

my123 6y ago
Windows 8.1 onwards also do in Windows land, with it returning the Windows 8.0 version number (NT 6.2, build 9200) for apps that aren't enlightened for newer versions.

wk_end 6y ago

Legend has it this is why Windows skipped version 9 - too many apps broke when they checked the version string just for “Windows 9” to capture both “95” and “98”.

Lammy 6y ago
I wonder if wanting to one-up Microsoft also came up somewhere once they both had an OS major version 10 :)
stordoff 6y ago
Opera 10 faced the same issue: > The user agent for Opera 10 (eg Mac platform, English locale) will be as follows: Opera/9.80 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00 > When we released the Opera 10 alpha in December last year, we gave it a Opera/10.00 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X; U; en) Presto/2.2.0 user agent string. [...] It appears that a considerable amount of browser sniffing scripts are not quite ready for this change to double digits, as they detect only the first digit of the user agent string: in such a scenario, Opera 10 is interpreted as Opera 1. https://maqentaer.com/devopera-static-backup/http/dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-ua-string-changes/index.html https://maqentaer.com/devopera-static-backup/http/dev.opera....

xucheng 6y ago

I remember some softwares were broken when macOS 10.10 came out. Because they all assumed that the minor version is a single digit. Since TLS 1.3, the version number in Client Hello package has been permanently frozen as TLS 1.0 to prevent breakage. There is also a story that the copyright string in some old software by microsoft is permanently frozen for the same purpose.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
> Client Hello package has been permanently frozen as TLS 1.0 to prevent breakage. Which is actually reported as SSL 3.1 "to prevent breakage".

thought_alarm 6y ago

It's the first time in the 20 year history of Mac OS X that the major version number has changed. They're simply protecting against the likely possibility that some apps don't bother to check the major version. Going forward, expect the major version number to change each year, like iOS. But for apps built against older versions of the SDK, the major version will always be 10.

jon-wood 6y ago
How is Mac OS X two decades old? It feels like just yesterday I started my first real job, developing websites on a computer running Mac OS 10.1.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  It’s because the fundamentals of the macOS user-experience haven’t changed much since OS X’s introduction of the dock and their fancy GUI effects: the “genie” window minimise is still there! And generally speaking, macOS’s aesthetics have been consistent too - we only saw Dark Mode added very recently, for example. Apple has also been very conservative about adding major user-visible features to macOS lately - but that’s more attributable to them devoting their resources to iOS instead of macOS. Windows, on the other hand, updates its appearance (and adds (or removes) gimmicks) with each major release - even completely upending the UX fundamentals in Windows 8. Also consider that we used to have to reformat/reinstall computer OSs more regularly in the past - and having to do reinstalls makes you think about your computer UX as you spend time changing the settings from the defaults to your custom preferences. I remember having to reinstall Windows 95-98 every 6-9 months, and Windows XP once every year or so. Since Windows 7 things have been a lot more stable - my current Windows 10 install would have been ~4 years old now if it weren’t for me losing all my documents in the October 2018 update... (all I got was $400 from MS, ugh)
fpgaminer 6y ago
That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

Klonoar 6y ago

It's kind of a pain in the ass with regards to homebrew at the moment, yeah.