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Not everything in the world can be measured by pay. Sure, an FBI Criminal Profiler earns a tiny fraction of what a google dev earns. But one can take serial ki

Not everything in the world can be measured by pay. Sure, an FBI Criminal Profiler earns a tiny fraction of what a google dev earns. But one can take serial killers off the street, and the other just makes ads more annoying. A Social Worker earns almost nothing, but they get to help the most needy of people get the help they need. A FB engineer earns 10x the pay, but just makes ads more annoying. A teacher earns almost nothing, but they get to teach the next generation of society. An Amazon engineer earns 10x the pay, but just finds ways to sell you more stuff you don't need. No one goes into government work b/c the pay, they do it for reasons they find more important.

xenospn 6y ago
"The common good" is something that is easily lost on the vast majority of people in tech, it seems.
- jason0597 6y ago
  I'm not surprised. If you grow up as a computer nerd all your life with few recognizable achievements, and suddenly a Big Tech company dangles in front of you $100k or more, very few people can say no, especially if you also grew up from a relatively poor background.
  - xenospn 6y ago
    I think it's actually something unique about Americans. When I started my company, I wanted our slogan to be "Helping each other, together". I very quickly realized that no one in the US actually responds to a saying like that. The vast majority simply doesn't "get" it.
    - douglasisshiny 6y ago
      Sadly it makes it harder to find a job as a software engineer in which I can work for a company or in a position making a positive impact on the world (as amorphous as that may sound). Any interaction that I've had with a recruiter when considering looking. Me: "I'm not interested in working on ad tech or a bank, etc. I'm interested in privacy companies, green technology, conservation, etc." Recruiter: "I have a job with Investment Bank X that I think may be interested in."
      - TACIXAT 6y ago
        Can I interest you in a React / Typescript role for Rent Seeking 2.0?
    - dsjimi 6y ago
      The Culture of Narcissism by Lasch or Democracy in America by de Tocqueville might be of interest to you.
- thephyber 6y ago
  Only if you assume that "the common good" in this country isn't a mirage (which tech workers are more likely to see, IMHO). That phrase is roughly equivalent to how large corporations thank "essential workers" during the pandemic. It's marketing. It's an excuse to underpay and leave workers without sufficient support.
tehlike 6y ago
"the other just makes ads more annoying" The meme that never dies. Advertising funded tons of tons of businesses on apps and on web, employed hundreds of thousands directly and created a large economy. Disclaimer: Former google, current facebook employee, working in ads.
- jason0597 6y ago
  The US army also employs hundreds of thousands. Does that mean it's good to pump so much money into it and keep it that strong?
  - tehlike 6y ago
    Depends on who you ask. The general us population owes its army their way of life, quality of life, and wealth.
    - dumdaar 6y ago
      >quality of life, and wealth. Can you elaborate more on how invasion of Iraq helped in increasing quality of life for an average citizen?
      - tehlike 6y ago
        Try not to pick on specific instances for the sake of argument. US military power and it's geopolitical position, combined with a bunch of other things made dollar the reserve currency. Fed is printing money yet there is no inflation except asset inflation. Noone can threaten us military, hence we will be for foreseeable future the country people will pour money on.
- fock 6y ago
  and most important of all: it created a new group of rent-seekers from scratch. well done!
  - tehlike 6y ago
x87678r 6y ago
I completely agree. Just the headline I didn't agree with. Universities for teaching, social work, fbi profilers will never be as prestigious as those where you can get trained to earn millions.
- zjaffee 6y ago
  Except that isn't explicitly true. West point and the navel academy are some of the most prestigious universities in the entire country. The fundamental difference between these things lies in the fact that a lot of government work comes with higher levels of responsibility and ownership in terms of the way in which you want to do your job. There's tremendous demand to join things like the US foreign service officer program because as these people move though their career, there's basically an unwritten promise that they will have a legitimate impact on US state department policy for the countries they work in. Something that will only really ever be true in the world of government enterprise software work if you're the PM.
md2020 6y ago
Not to mention the fact that the government is one of the only funding sources for blue-sky research nowadays. Pretty much the only surviving research institutions that rival Bell Labs are the national laboratories. Getting to work with insanely bright people at the frontiers of your field (without the funding problems of academia) should be considered a benefit on its own. Also, many of the national labs pay quite well. They don’t use the USG pay scale which is a misconception I see very often in these discussions.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Rafuino 6y ago
This is so true, but it's also an issue. If you can't make a living in government, then you're more likely to leave or turn to rent-seeking opportunities (i.e. becoming a lobbyist after a few years working on Capitol Hill). I worked in public policy for years but had 5 roommates even 5 years in and was saving zero money. In order to build a stable future for myself, I had to leave government. If I could've stayed working on the issues I was passionate about and been able to buy a house or start a family, then I may have stayed. But I couldn't do that, so I left...

xenospn 6y ago

"The common good" is something that is easily lost on the vast majority of people in tech, it seems.

jason0597 6y ago
I'm not surprised. If you grow up as a computer nerd all your life with few recognizable achievements, and suddenly a Big Tech company dangles in front of you $100k or more, very few people can say no, especially if you also grew up from a relatively poor background.
- xenospn 6y ago
  I think it's actually something unique about Americans. When I started my company, I wanted our slogan to be "Helping each other, together". I very quickly realized that no one in the US actually responds to a saying like that. The vast majority simply doesn't "get" it.
  - douglasisshiny 6y ago
    Sadly it makes it harder to find a job as a software engineer in which I can work for a company or in a position making a positive impact on the world (as amorphous as that may sound). Any interaction that I've had with a recruiter when considering looking. Me: "I'm not interested in working on ad tech or a bank, etc. I'm interested in privacy companies, green technology, conservation, etc." Recruiter: "I have a job with Investment Bank X that I think may be interested in."
    - TACIXAT 6y ago
      Can I interest you in a React / Typescript role for Rent Seeking 2.0?
  - dsjimi 6y ago
    The Culture of Narcissism by Lasch or Democracy in America by de Tocqueville might be of interest to you.
thephyber 6y ago
Only if you assume that "the common good" in this country isn't a mirage (which tech workers are more likely to see, IMHO). That phrase is roughly equivalent to how large corporations thank "essential workers" during the pandemic. It's marketing. It's an excuse to underpay and leave workers without sufficient support.

tehlike 6y ago

"the other just makes ads more annoying" The meme that never dies. Advertising funded tons of tons of businesses on apps and on web, employed hundreds of thousands directly and created a large economy. Disclaimer: Former google, current facebook employee, working in ads.

jason0597 6y ago
The US army also employs hundreds of thousands. Does that mean it's good to pump so much money into it and keep it that strong?
- tehlike 6y ago
  Depends on who you ask. The general us population owes its army their way of life, quality of life, and wealth.
  - dumdaar 6y ago
    >quality of life, and wealth. Can you elaborate more on how invasion of Iraq helped in increasing quality of life for an average citizen?
    - tehlike 6y ago
      Try not to pick on specific instances for the sake of argument. US military power and it's geopolitical position, combined with a bunch of other things made dollar the reserve currency. Fed is printing money yet there is no inflation except asset inflation. Noone can threaten us military, hence we will be for foreseeable future the country people will pour money on.
fock 6y ago
and most important of all: it created a new group of rent-seekers from scratch. well done!
- tehlike 6y ago

x87678r 6y ago

I completely agree. Just the headline I didn't agree with. Universities for teaching, social work, fbi profilers will never be as prestigious as those where you can get trained to earn millions.

zjaffee 6y ago
Except that isn't explicitly true. West point and the navel academy are some of the most prestigious universities in the entire country. The fundamental difference between these things lies in the fact that a lot of government work comes with higher levels of responsibility and ownership in terms of the way in which you want to do your job. There's tremendous demand to join things like the US foreign service officer program because as these people move though their career, there's basically an unwritten promise that they will have a legitimate impact on US state department policy for the countries they work in. Something that will only really ever be true in the world of government enterprise software work if you're the PM.

md2020 6y ago

Not to mention the fact that the government is one of the only funding sources for blue-sky research nowadays. Pretty much the only surviving research institutions that rival Bell Labs are the national laboratories. Getting to work with insanely bright people at the frontiers of your field (without the funding problems of academia) should be considered a benefit on its own. Also, many of the national labs pay quite well. They don’t use the USG pay scale which is a misconception I see very often in these discussions.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Rafuino 6y ago

This is so true, but it's also an issue. If you can't make a living in government, then you're more likely to leave or turn to rent-seeking opportunities (i.e. becoming a lobbyist after a few years working on Capitol Hill). I worked in public policy for years but had 5 roommates even 5 years in and was saving zero money. In order to build a stable future for myself, I had to leave government. If I could've stayed working on the issues I was passionate about and been able to buy a house or start a family, then I may have stayed. But I couldn't do that, so I left...