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I have a hard time imagining such a world precisely because being a bad actor is a part of our DNA and the DNA of many many animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi

I have a hard time imagining such a world precisely because being a bad actor is a part of our DNA and the DNA of many many animals, plants, bacteria, and fungi we interact with. The unintended consequence of lack of selfishness could be mind boggling. Think about it this way: Silicone Valley mostly provides the last 5% of the tech needed to make any given product. You know where the rest comes from? Military tech that eventually makes its way to civilian use. Things like semiconductors, the Internet, GPS, rocket propulsion, etc. No conflict == no military == no tech == we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I am definitely not saying we couldn’t all be a whole lot nicer to each other. But I am saying that we wouldn’t be human if that was wired into us.

clusterfish 6y ago
The military's role in this seems very much rooted in selfishness and adversity, to the extent that a more cooperative species (let's be honest it's not gonna be us) would find plenty of non-military motivation to do similar amounts of basic and applied research.
- mnsc 6y ago
  Is there a name for the sensation of being born the wrong species?
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    Maybe in German. I personally regularly curse the fact that I was born a human when I am confronted with uniquely human problems: having to cook, sweating my behind off, having to waste time using the bathroom, experiencing strong emotions like anger or jealousy or envy. These are the things that make us human, but they often times I find them highly annoying and wish my ancestors had evolved out of some of them.
    - zerocrates 6y ago
      Shakespeare's "thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to"
strbean 6y ago
> Silicone Valley mostly provides the last 5% Typo? Or are we finally acknowledging the contributions of the porn industry? :)
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  I mean... given the contributions of the porn industry to the advancements of the web, an appropriate typo?
waynecochran 6y ago
Do you think ancient Rome could have landed someone on the moon had they not fell?
- tintor 6y ago
  Given enough time, yes.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Ancient Rome was very military driven. They also had classes of people, which I'd argue is about as selfish as you can get. They could absolutely land on the moon with enough time.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  Roma Aeterna!
- rurban 6y ago
  Absolutely not. The ones who did beat the Romans were the ones which then did the moon landing. The Germans.
adamsea 6y ago
Yeah but as humans we have an ability to learn and change.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  You can lead a horse to water...
eru 6y ago
Your estimation of the military is way off, I suspect. Hey, these days the military is using consumer grad iPads, because they are cheaper and good enough. There are more things in heaven and earth than just the military and SV. One big example that's often brought up of military tech leading the way is programmable computers. And, yes, in our history that's what happened. But International Business Machines was hot on their heels purely for commercial computing. (If the militaries of the world hadn't blown up so many resources, business would have likely come up with programmable computers a few years earlier, thus completely eliminating the gap.)
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  I am not saying that any and all tech comes from the military. I am saying that the military is and always has been the driver for innovation more so than any other industry. IBM derives a large share of its profits from tech originally funded by the military for military purposes. The roads we drive on, the cars we drive, the semiconductors we use, the tampons and pads we use, are all pretty direct examples. Lots are indirect. The military also uses duct tape and drives Jeeps. Both were originally invented and built for the military in 1940s. DARPA is still a huge contributor to what we will be taking for granted 20 years from now. There are other researchers of course, I'm not disputing that. This year's National Science Foundation in the US has a budget of $7.1 billion, while military research combined totals $59 billion.

clusterfish 6y ago

The military's role in this seems very much rooted in selfishness and adversity, to the extent that a more cooperative species (let's be honest it's not gonna be us) would find plenty of non-military motivation to do similar amounts of basic and applied research.

mnsc 6y ago
Is there a name for the sensation of being born the wrong species?
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Maybe in German. I personally regularly curse the fact that I was born a human when I am confronted with uniquely human problems: having to cook, sweating my behind off, having to waste time using the bathroom, experiencing strong emotions like anger or jealousy or envy. These are the things that make us human, but they often times I find them highly annoying and wish my ancestors had evolved out of some of them.
  - zerocrates 6y ago
    Shakespeare's "thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to"

strbean 6y ago

> Silicone Valley mostly provides the last 5% Typo? Or are we finally acknowledging the contributions of the porn industry? :)

IgorPartola 6y ago
I mean... given the contributions of the porn industry to the advancements of the web, an appropriate typo?

waynecochran 6y ago

Do you think ancient Rome could have landed someone on the moon had they not fell?

tintor 6y ago
Given enough time, yes.
IgorPartola 6y ago
Ancient Rome was very military driven. They also had classes of people, which I'd argue is about as selfish as you can get. They could absolutely land on the moon with enough time.
m4rtink 6y ago
Roma Aeterna!
rurban 6y ago
Absolutely not. The ones who did beat the Romans were the ones which then did the moon landing. The Germans.

adamsea 6y ago

Yeah but as humans we have an ability to learn and change.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
You can lead a horse to water...

eru 6y ago

Your estimation of the military is way off, I suspect. Hey, these days the military is using consumer grad iPads, because they are cheaper and good enough. There are more things in heaven and earth than just the military and SV. One big example that's often brought up of military tech leading the way is programmable computers. And, yes, in our history that's what happened. But International Business Machines was hot on their heels purely for commercial computing. (If the militaries of the world hadn't blown up so many resources, business would have likely come up with programmable computers a few years earlier, thus completely eliminating the gap.)

IgorPartola 6y ago
I am not saying that any and all tech comes from the military. I am saying that the military is and always has been the driver for innovation more so than any other industry. IBM derives a large share of its profits from tech originally funded by the military for military purposes. The roads we drive on, the cars we drive, the semiconductors we use, the tampons and pads we use, are all pretty direct examples. Lots are indirect. The military also uses duct tape and drives Jeeps. Both were originally invented and built for the military in 1940s. DARPA is still a huge contributor to what we will be taking for granted 20 years from now. There are other researchers of course, I'm not disputing that. This year's National Science Foundation in the US has a budget of $7.1 billion, while military research combined totals $59 billion.