4 ms·

If you don't get the fundamentals down, you can't handle the applications. Wax on, wax off - boring but effective. But you also need to spend time putting those

by wisty 16y ago

If you don't get the fundamentals down, you can't handle the applications. Wax on, wax off - boring but effective. But you also need to spend time putting those fundamentals to work. The real question is, why do you need assessment? To test that most kids are getting the fundamentals? Easy. Have a few core tests. To check that class time is also devoted to creative stuff, and not just drills? That's a management problem. You can't test whether or not kids have had (say) 50% of their time doing fun non-core work, but you can regulate that through other means.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
> If you don't get the fundamentals down, > you can't handle the applications. Absolutely, which is why I advocatedoing the algebra, doing the manipulation, and doing "the sums" until the act of doing them is almost reflex. > The real question is, why do you need assessment? I'm assuming you're serious. Society demands assessment. Government demands assessment. Employers demand assessment (and then ignore it and apply their own tests). Students themselves are conditioned to demand assessment - there are many instances of teachers or lecturers playing with the idea of not giving grades, and mostly the students hated it. (whether it worked better is another question) FWIW - I advocate a radical shift in what's done, and am working subversively on a ten year plan to make changes. Just becuase I can identify some problems, don't assume I believe they are real, or insurmountable.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- ANH 16y ago
  > Society demands assessment. Government demands assessment. Employers demand assessment. My college didn't hand out GPAs and all evaluations were narrative. Only on rare occasions has the lack of numbers attached to my performance prevented me from obtaining what I wanted, and even for those cases I remain dubious about the benefits.
  - gamble 16y ago
    How did they apportion scholarships or determine who received a spot in programs with a limited number of openings? Institutions assess for many reasons, but primarily because educational opportunities are rationed and they need some method for separating the worthy from the unworthy without relying entirely on personal testimonials or politics.
neutronicus 16y ago
why do you need assessment? Are you serious? There are a small number jobs that 1. Are very desirable (lucrative, secure, etc.). 2. Require very high mathematical proficiency. 3. Have drastic consequences if performed poorly. It's self-evident why assessment is an important function of the education system. The question becomes: is it more important to correctly identify potential engineers and scientists and to maximize their proficiency at their careers, or more important that Joe the Plumber can balance his checkbook when he goes straight into the workforce after his high school diploma? I doubt that we can optimize both of these cases simultaneously.

by wisty 16y ago

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

> If you don't get the fundamentals down, > you can't handle the applications. Absolutely, which is why I advocatedoing the algebra, doing the manipulation, and doing "the sums" until the act of doing them is almost reflex. > The real question is, why do you need assessment? I'm assuming you're serious. Society demands assessment. Government demands assessment. Employers demand assessment (and then ignore it and apply their own tests). Students themselves are conditioned to demand assessment - there are many instances of teachers or lecturers playing with the idea of not giving grades, and mostly the students hated it. (whether it worked better is another question) FWIW - I advocate a radical shift in what's done, and am working subversively on a ten year plan to make changes. Just becuase I can identify some problems, don't assume I believe they are real, or insurmountable.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ANH 16y ago
> Society demands assessment. Government demands assessment. Employers demand assessment. My college didn't hand out GPAs and all evaluations were narrative. Only on rare occasions has the lack of numbers attached to my performance prevented me from obtaining what I wanted, and even for those cases I remain dubious about the benefits.
- gamble 16y ago
  How did they apportion scholarships or determine who received a spot in programs with a limited number of openings? Institutions assess for many reasons, but primarily because educational opportunities are rationed and they need some method for separating the worthy from the unworthy without relying entirely on personal testimonials or politics.

neutronicus 16y ago

why do you need assessment? Are you serious? There are a small number jobs that 1. Are very desirable (lucrative, secure, etc.). 2. Require very high mathematical proficiency. 3. Have drastic consequences if performed poorly. It's self-evident why assessment is an important function of the education system. The question becomes: is it more important to correctly identify potential engineers and scientists and to maximize their proficiency at their careers, or more important that Joe the Plumber can balance his checkbook when he goes straight into the workforce after his high school diploma? I doubt that we can optimize both of these cases simultaneously.