4 ms·

Not using labor from the country which runs actual concentration camps would be pretty cool, too.

by m0zg 6y ago

spiderfarmer 6y ago
Please let the downvoters explain why they think this opinion deserves downvotes. I thought this was a news and discussion platform.
- dx87 6y ago
  Because this post is about discussing the environmental impact of Apple's products. If someone wants to talk about the concentration camps, they can do it on any of the other billion posts that are specifically discussing it.
  - DeusExMachina 6y ago
    I don't think there is any rule stating that HN discussion need to stay precisely on the topic of the article discussed. In fact, there are many about topics just tangential to the main one.
    - dx87 6y ago
      > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for. Unless Apple products are being made in the concentration camps, it's not even close to tangential to the topic of environmental sustainability of Apple's supply chain. It's just trying to derail the discussion by bringing up political issues.
      - kop316 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure that's exactly the claims being made here: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-Uyghurs-making-Apple-and-Samsung-phones https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-U... https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-labor-in-china-report-says/ https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-la... https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-nike-apple-uighur-muslims-china-forced-labor-1492240 https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-n...
  - afandian 6y ago
    I don't agree. Both captive / slave labour and environmentally harmful manufacturing are par for the course in the modern economy, completely unconscionable to a large number of people, but apparently very difficult to escape. Seems highly relevant.
    - dx87 6y ago
      This post isn't about the modern economy, it's about what Apple is planning to do in order to reduce their carbon footprint. Using your logic, for-profit prisons are relevant to this post since Apple is located in America.
blhack 6y ago
Apple is doing all of this to save about $100 per iPhone: https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/9/13/17851052/apple-iphone-price-china-trump-us-trade https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/9/13/17851052/apple-ipho...
- m0zg 6y ago
  I don't even think it's that much. Most of the work could be done by robots anywhere in the world. It's not like much of it is being done by hand as it is - the SMD components on the PCB are barely visible to the human eye nowadays. To their credit, they are moving some of their production to India, after India forced them to. Maybe the United States should do the same.
- Krasnol 6y ago
  Do anybody here seriously think that people would not buy if it would cost $100 more?
afandian 6y ago
Nearly everything is made in a country which has concentration camps and forced labour for the export market. It's difficult to avoid. Then again, so is carbon intensive manufacture. So I think this is a natural next question. In both cases someone has to lead the way.
- m0zg 6y ago
  I don't see how a company can simultaneously virtue signal about social justice and the environment, and manufacture hundreds of millions of units of its product in a country which emits twice as much per dollar of GDP as the US and uses "forced labor". All while charging eye-watering amounts for its stuff. But maybe it's just me. Explain how this is not a staggering level of hypocrisy, please.
  - fermienrico 6y ago
    This. We need to organize protests outside of Apple HQ, press needs to get on it. Big banner news papers. A $1 trillion dollar company is exploiting labor from concentration camps is totally unacceptable. Even if it wasn’t, still need to put pressure on Apple to bring back manufacturing.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

Not using labor from the country which runs actual concentration camps would be pretty cool, too.

by m0zg 6y ago

Not using labor from the country which runs actual concentration camps would be pretty cool, too.

Please let the downvoters explain why they think this opinion deserves downvotes. I thought this was a news and discussion platform.

dx87 6y ago
Because this post is about discussing the environmental impact of Apple's products. If someone wants to talk about the concentration camps, they can do it on any of the other billion posts that are specifically discussing it.
- DeusExMachina 6y ago
  I don't think there is any rule stating that HN discussion need to stay precisely on the topic of the article discussed. In fact, there are many about topics just tangential to the main one.
  - dx87 6y ago
    > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for. Unless Apple products are being made in the concentration camps, it's not even close to tangential to the topic of environmental sustainability of Apple's supply chain. It's just trying to derail the discussion by bringing up political issues.
    - kop316 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure that's exactly the claims being made here: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-Uyghurs-making-Apple-and-Samsung-phones https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-U... https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-labor-in-china-report-says/ https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-la... https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-nike-apple-uighur-muslims-china-forced-labor-1492240 https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-n...
- afandian 6y ago
  I don't agree. Both captive / slave labour and environmentally harmful manufacturing are par for the course in the modern economy, completely unconscionable to a large number of people, but apparently very difficult to escape. Seems highly relevant.
  - dx87 6y ago
    This post isn't about the modern economy, it's about what Apple is planning to do in order to reduce their carbon footprint. Using your logic, for-profit prisons are relevant to this post since Apple is located in America.

blhack 6y ago

Apple is doing all of this to save about $100 per iPhone: https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/9/13/17851052/apple-iphone-price-china-trump-us-trade https://www.vox.com/technology/2018/9/13/17851052/apple-ipho...

m0zg 6y ago
I don't even think it's that much. Most of the work could be done by robots anywhere in the world. It's not like much of it is being done by hand as it is - the SMD components on the PCB are barely visible to the human eye nowadays. To their credit, they are moving some of their production to India, after India forced them to. Maybe the United States should do the same.
Krasnol 6y ago
Do anybody here seriously think that people would not buy if it would cost $100 more?

afandian 6y ago

Nearly everything is made in a country which has concentration camps and forced labour for the export market. It's difficult to avoid. Then again, so is carbon intensive manufacture. So I think this is a natural next question. In both cases someone has to lead the way.

m0zg 6y ago
I don't see how a company can simultaneously virtue signal about social justice and the environment, and manufacture hundreds of millions of units of its product in a country which emits twice as much per dollar of GDP as the US and uses "forced labor". All while charging eye-watering amounts for its stuff. But maybe it's just me. Explain how this is not a staggering level of hypocrisy, please.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  This. We need to organize protests outside of Apple HQ, press needs to get on it. Big banner news papers. A $1 trillion dollar company is exploiting labor from concentration camps is totally unacceptable. Even if it wasn’t, still need to put pressure on Apple to bring back manufacturing.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]