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ICE look way more complex than EV to me. More moving parts, more feedback loops. I wouldn't be surprised if enthusiasts were able to swap the controller for som

ICE look way more complex than EV to me. More moving parts, more feedback loops. I wouldn't be surprised if enthusiasts were able to swap the controller for something else. But then I perfectly know you are right about the general tendency of integrated and locked-in parts in engineering nowadays.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
How will you swap the controller when that's sealed in the motor casing and the other car's computers will be programed to lock-out non orginal parts in software. The Fast and furious style tuning is super easy on ICE cars but I expect it will be almost impossible in the EV future.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  Put in a different motor, I'd guess. They're cheap compared to engines, and people certainly swap those regularly. New ECU perhaps, as necesasry. Modders are going to mod, for sure. And there's no guarantee that Tesla-style anti-consumer behavior will be prevalent with all manufacturers or that it won't get shot down by the gov't. Some manufacturers actually embrace their modding enthusiasts.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Except nobody makes aftermarket motors the same way nobody makes aftermarket engines. Engines are _THE_ most OEM thing in a car as it takes massive resources to engineer and test a new engine design.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      There are definitely aftermarket engines, though admittedly most swaps by far are for different OE designs. Given the utter simplicity of electric motors, I imagine that aftermarket creations will be much more common.
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        I feel like, with most of the HN crowd, you underestimate the sheer complexity of current EV motors. It's not just a spinning rotor in a stator that when you plug it into a battery is starts to move. As a former EV automotive engineer, the complexity added to the newer designs to maximize efficiency has skyrocketed and so have the points of failure. One EV project I worked at had the brushes fail after 20k KM needing the motor disassemble and brushes replaced. At another one we had attempted cooling the rotor and from too much vibrations, the coolant could leak inside the sealed motor totalling it. People expecting EVs to outlast ICEs on reliability are in for a serious wake-up call.
        rootusrootus 6y ago
        I don't really think EV motors are super simple, but I appreciate just how many moving parts there are in a modern ICE. I totally agree on the reliability point. ICE drivetrains have really been refined and typically last quite a long time. Last I checked, it's not usually the drivetrain that takes a car out of service anyway, so I don't expect EVs to really change the overall life expectancy. My Tesla has been great, so far, but there are a lot of oddities that I don't think will age well. I probably won't keep it past the warranty period.
nemo44x 6y ago
It depends. If you're looking at an old school ICE with limited or no computer then they are super simple to understand and work on. Having tools, lifts, etc are generally the thing outside of reach. I think one of the reasons older Jeeps (with manual transmissions) are still really popular for off roading is that they are super mechanical and very easy to work on in the field. You can carry with you parts that are likely to break based on what you're doing and fix them yourself with a bit of know-how. You can also tune them however you like as changing suspensions, axels, carbs, differentials, or even clutches is pretty straight forward if you have the tools. Hell, you don't even need to rely on the battery to start it as you can just push it to get it going. Super reliable in a sort of way if you're in the field and need to self repair.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

How will you swap the controller when that's sealed in the motor casing and the other car's computers will be programed to lock-out non orginal parts in software. The Fast and furious style tuning is super easy on ICE cars but I expect it will be almost impossible in the EV future.

rootusrootus 6y ago
Put in a different motor, I'd guess. They're cheap compared to engines, and people certainly swap those regularly. New ECU perhaps, as necesasry. Modders are going to mod, for sure. And there's no guarantee that Tesla-style anti-consumer behavior will be prevalent with all manufacturers or that it won't get shot down by the gov't. Some manufacturers actually embrace their modding enthusiasts.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Except nobody makes aftermarket motors the same way nobody makes aftermarket engines. Engines are _THE_ most OEM thing in a car as it takes massive resources to engineer and test a new engine design.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    There are definitely aftermarket engines, though admittedly most swaps by far are for different OE designs. Given the utter simplicity of electric motors, I imagine that aftermarket creations will be much more common.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      I feel like, with most of the HN crowd, you underestimate the sheer complexity of current EV motors. It's not just a spinning rotor in a stator that when you plug it into a battery is starts to move. As a former EV automotive engineer, the complexity added to the newer designs to maximize efficiency has skyrocketed and so have the points of failure. One EV project I worked at had the brushes fail after 20k KM needing the motor disassemble and brushes replaced. At another one we had attempted cooling the rotor and from too much vibrations, the coolant could leak inside the sealed motor totalling it. People expecting EVs to outlast ICEs on reliability are in for a serious wake-up call.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        I don't really think EV motors are super simple, but I appreciate just how many moving parts there are in a modern ICE. I totally agree on the reliability point. ICE drivetrains have really been refined and typically last quite a long time. Last I checked, it's not usually the drivetrain that takes a car out of service anyway, so I don't expect EVs to really change the overall life expectancy. My Tesla has been great, so far, but there are a lot of oddities that I don't think will age well. I probably won't keep it past the warranty period.

nemo44x 6y ago

It depends. If you're looking at an old school ICE with limited or no computer then they are super simple to understand and work on. Having tools, lifts, etc are generally the thing outside of reach. I think one of the reasons older Jeeps (with manual transmissions) are still really popular for off roading is that they are super mechanical and very easy to work on in the field. You can carry with you parts that are likely to break based on what you're doing and fix them yourself with a bit of know-how. You can also tune them however you like as changing suspensions, axels, carbs, differentials, or even clutches is pretty straight forward if you have the tools. Hell, you don't even need to rely on the battery to start it as you can just push it to get it going. Super reliable in a sort of way if you're in the field and need to self repair.